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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:28 pm 
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This is a very interesting read by this person who apparently was a victim of poor Self-Defense laws in Florida. Hopefully someone who knows the law can verify the contents. Do read also this person's personal story. While we await, jury selection/trial, what may be the most crucial is the faulty jury instructions which is the heart of the matter in this read:

http://selfdefenseflorida.com/index.html


Can someone answer what this author means under the Writ part:

"III.. Does the cumulative effect of certain structural aspects of Florida's justice system violate Due Process and prevent fair trials? In Florida, uniquely, the defendant doesn't get a grand jury; doesn't get 12 jurors; doesn't get to tell the jurors the penalties; doesn't get the last closing argument; and in 75% of cases, doesn't get an opinion on appeal, the "lead curtain of appellate silence."

^what does that BOLD part mean.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:53 pm 
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Ottawa925, when an appellate panel renders an opinion, either party may attack whatever parts of the opinion with which they disagree to a higher tribunal. If the panel doesn't issue an opinion explaining the reasoning behind their decision it's nearly impossible to get up the next step of the judicial ladder. A one word opinion, "affirmed" leaves the judgment of the lower court intact and offers no real recourse for the appellant, the one who appealed to the higher court. Or, the entirety of the judgment reading "petition for X denied" likewise leaves the petitioner with almost zero recourse; or in practice, literally no recourse. HTH.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:58 pm 
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Ottawa925 wrote:
and in 75% of cases, doesn't get an opinion on appeal, the "lead curtain of appellate silence."

^what does that BOLD part mean.



PCA = per curiam affirmance = appeals court affirms trial court w/o explanatory opinion

See the list of PCAS for the week here:


http://www.5dca.org/Opinions/Opin2013/0 ... 52713.html


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 2:14 pm 
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Ottawa925, the article you posted, if true, is very old (the incident occurred in 2004) and represents the opinions of one person who seems to have no legal training and who also seems to feel very victimized. I find it very difficult to believe their version of events constitutes the entire story, if any of it is true. If their story is straight up true and complete, what happened is an outrage that should catch the attention of the ACLU and various justice projects. That it hasn't after all of this time makes the story suspect, as does the premise that their blog is written from prison during a 20 year sentence.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 2:32 pm 
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First, liesel and Galt .. thank you for responding.

liesel, thank you in particular for explaining the part in BOLD to which I presume you agree is correct in his analysis of the true state of affairs for a self-defense defendant.

I was more concerned with his analysis of the law on self-defense, and was wondering if any of you legal eagles agreed with his analysis. He paints a very depressing picture of how things are geared against the defendant. If you could just validate his points on the self-defense law, then I can go from there as to what we will be dealing with in George's trial based on Florida law.

We cannot know all the facts of this man's story, and as you say there must be something missing from his story as it seems too fantastic to believe. But then the railroading of George is hard to believe as well, yet we know this is true because we have been following the activities of those that surround this case from day 1.

I just thought his site zeroed in on Self-Defense law in Florida, Jury Instructions, etc. and if correct, we at least have something to think about.

Quite frankly, if what he wrote about the law is true .. then I am very worried about what will happen with this trial of George.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 2:37 pm 
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BTW, if you look under his section: App. Briefs, Motions

you will find his Appeal Brief which sets out his side of the story, and then you have the response by the State.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:00 pm 
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It Seems that Rene Sultzman (OS) has access to the Defence 4th Supplemental Discovery.

Has posted info and even a video.. but then removed/edited.

From CTH.....

Quote:
diwataman says:
June 1, 2013 at 11:06 am

I have this now:

“Video released today by George Zimmerman’s trial attorneys depicts what they say is Trayvon Martin video-recording his friends beating up a …”

She’s changing it as we speak. Let me know when 1984 ends, lolz.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:08 pm 
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It seems a glitch is giving us a rare glimpse of typical "Journalism" in action.

They have the documents and evidence... now their craft is to mould it into a story-line of their choosing.

I think John Galt has good insight into how the final version might evolve......

Quote:
John Galt says:
June 1, 2013 at 11:57 am

Video released today by George Zimmerman’s trial attorneys depicts Trayvon and his friends helping the homeless and rescuing abandoned kittens. — OS


:give :cat :cat :1

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:43 pm 
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http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/loc ... ?track=rss


Is the DOJ involved in the special seating arrangements?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:45 pm 
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Maybe they decided to wait until Sunday to release the finished product...I think more people buy/read the Sunday paper. What are the odds of a big exposé in George's favor?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:50 pm 
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kbp wrote:
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-trial-logistics-20130602,0,1080541.story?track=rss


Is the DOJ involved in the special seating arrangements?


Strange that Rene published this...what happened to her story about the "homeless man beating"? Very strange...

And all this expense and hoopla for the railroading of George Zimmerman.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:11 pm 
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A larger part of Rene's article, still cached by Google, is as follows:
Quote:
Video released today by George Zimmerman's trial attorneys depicts what they say is Trayvon Martin laughing while he video-records a fight between two homeless men. It shows something far different than what defense attorney Mark O'Mara described during a hearing Tuesday. Back then, he told Circuit Judge Debra S. Nelson that it was Trayvon making a video-recording of his buddies "beating up a homeless guy." But what the video shows is Trayvon and a friend encountering two homeless men who are fighting over a bicycle. Trayvon moves closer and records the fight and while he does, can be heard laughing. Trayvon is the unarmed black 17-year-old that Zimmerman, a Neighborhood Watch volunteer, fatally shot in Sanford Feb. 26, 2012.
Apparently the media can take positions when it suits them.


Last edited by KF10 on Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:16 pm 
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Welcome to RT KF10 :give

Thanks for the quote. I am still not totally convinced about what the vid does show.

It is annoying that Rene has access to Court filings before they are posted even at GZLegal... glad she has her sources to get info out... only she can be VERY selective about what she feeds us peasants... I would always rather see the raw info rather than her filtered version.


(You need an avatar pic :)
If you need help.. let me know.
any pic you fancy.. size less than 135 pxl wide)

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:21 pm 
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Thanks for the welcome. I will choose an avatar soon, and can handle that on my own.

Since my first post, where I had been messing with search wildcards on Google to retrieve more text, I have found an even more direct page from which I will quote the rest of the article:
Quote:
Zimmerman says he acted in self-defense, that the teenager attacked him, knocking him to the ground with a punch that broke his nose then climbed on top and began hammering his head against a sidewalk.

Prosecutors say Zimmerman profiled the black teenager, assuming he was about to commit a crime, followed and murdered him.

Zimmerman's second-degree murder trial is to begin June 10.

In court Tuesday O'Mara mentioned the video as one of several pieces of evidence he wants to put in front of jurors to show that Trayvon had a history of fighting and an interest in it.

The judge ruled Tuesday that O'Mara may not talk about fighting during his opening statement but if he convinces her during the trial that it's relevant and admissible, she would allow it.

O'Mara has unearthed a good bit of evidence that he says shows that Trayvon took part in organized fights. Last week, he released text messages from Trayvon's cell phone. In one the Miami Gardens' teenager wrote that in one fight he got pummeled in in the first round because his opponent got him on the ground.

Also in court Tuesday he said he had found video of Trayvon refereeing a fight.

Natalie Jackson, an attorney for Trayvon's family, was asked Tuesday what she knew about a video showing Trayvon video-recording his friends beating up a homeless man. She said she was not sure it existed.

Check back for updates.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:26 pm 
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Thanks again.... she she seems clear in her description.

I note time... she was working on it late Friday night.

By Rene Stutzman, Orlando Sentinel
10:31 p.m. EDT, May 31, 2013

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 5:59 pm 
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I hope there's some explanation why this differs from what MOM said. MOM knew this video would be made public and if wrong, will open him up to critizism.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 6:09 pm 
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DangerMauz wrote:
This is the bottom line for those looking to convict Zimmerman. They can't comprehend that someone can follow someone else and then still claim self defense. It doesn't matter to them what person B was doing. Person B is dead, ergo person A needs to be punished, come hell or high water.

Yes, as long as person B is black. :40


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 6:15 pm 
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Quote:
Video released today by George Zimmerman's trial attorneys depicts what they say is Trayvon Martin laughing while he video-records a fight between two homeless men. It shows something far different than what defense attorney Mark O'Mara described during a hearing Tuesday. Back then, he told Circuit Judge Debra S. Nelson that it was Trayvon making a video-recording of his buddies "beating up a homeless guy." But what the video shows is Trayvon and a friend encountering two homeless men who are fighting over a bicycle. Trayvon moves closer and records the fight and while he does, can be heard laughing. Trayvon is the unarmed black 17-year-old that Zimmerman, a Neighborhood Watch volunteer, fatally shot in Sanford Feb. 26, 2012.


Are we to understand that Rene herself has seen this video clip (and if so, who showed it to her when the public hasn't been allowed to see it?), or is she relying on what the Scheme Team are telling her that it shows?

Also, it's interesting how TM's defenders are morphing the story from "It's normal teenage behaviour" to "Just because the video is on TM's phone doesn't mean he took it" to "The video is irrelevant" (the Crumpster, I believe) to "I'm not sure the video even exists" (NataLIE Jackson) to "It shows something far different from what MOM described" (Renee).

But hey, at least the video shows that the kid had a sense of humour, right? What could be funnier than two homeless guys fighting? C'mon, Rene, post a link to the vid so that we can all have a good laugh!


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 6:28 pm 
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Ottawa925 wrote:
Looking to see where someone went and following are two different things

I haven't heard anybody say that, that I can remember. I will point that out whenever the subject comes up here or at CTH.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 6:37 pm 
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Sorry Rumpole; I know this is off topic but this is where the greatest concentration of George Zimmerman supporters can be found.

Wondering if anybody is familiar with YouTube user Thomas Jefferson? TJ appears on the surface to be a supporter of George but lays on the racist undertone fairly thick & argues with other supporters of George.


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