Quite right Deb

I have avoided "Politics" but if you guys really want to discuss Gun Control....

Gun Control Thread
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=753

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Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

You're right; in this case, it's not so much Obama's gun control agenda, but rather the BGI's gun control agenda.

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"That the attacker sustained a mortal wound is a matter that should have been considered by the deceased before he committed himself to the task he undertook." - 5th DCA, Stinson v. State (Fl)

http://www.freephonetracer.com/FCPT.asp ... 6-419-3726

I didn't buy this and I don't know who wants to. I tried to post it at CTH and I think I am in the SpamCan. It says that it is a cell phone and registered in North Dade, FL.


This is part of their terms and conditions. Yes, I read those things on occasion.

(Chip I took the liberty of copying your CTH post and "spreading the wealth around")

The Scheme Team narrative was well-played. Speculation and mis-information, even when in direct contradiction with existing evidence, are treated as known facts.

“Zimmerman approached Martin”
“Zimmerman menaced Martin for 8 minutes”
“Zimmerman pursued Martin”

etc.

Most of these, at this point, end up being used to demonstrate that Martin was statutorily justified in his use of force against Zimmemran, as self-defense.

When presented with actual evidence – approximately four minutes elapsed from the end of Zimmerman’s NEN call until the fatal gunshot (thus, impossible for Zimmerman to have “menaced” Martin for 8 minutes, or any length of time at all), both Zimmerman and Dee Dee claim that Martin had “lost” Zimmerman and we know from the NEN call that Zimmerman lost sight of Martin before he ever got out of his vehicle (thus, there was no “pursuit”), that both Zimmerman and Dee Dee claim that Martin verbally confronted Zimmerman, and that Dee Dee claims that Martin was “right by” Brandi Green’s home, while no evidence exists that Zimmerman ever left the vicinity of the sidewalk “T” (thus, evidence suggests that Martin approached Zimmerman, not the other way around) – those who have bought into the Scheme Team narrative then try to say that the location of the body proves that Zimmerman was near Brandi Green’s home. They will quibble over whether the body was 30 versus 45 feet away from the sidewalk “T” apparently without recognizing the more important fact that the body was some 300 feet away from Brandi Green’s home.

Amazingly, there are still people who argue that Martin never assaulted Zimmerman, or that Martin never landed a punch (their evidence, apparently, is the expert forensic testimony of the funeral director regarding Martin’s hands). And of course, there are the usual canards about the medical diagnosis of Zimmerman’s broken nose not being valid/sufficient, because no x-rays/MRI/etc. were performed to verify.

That said: there are actually #J4TM types who will discuss the case civilly, and who appear to be open to discussion of actual evidence. If I’ve encouraged even one such person to read the discovery evidence rather than to rely on the Narrative, then it was worth the effort to engage.

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"That the attacker sustained a mortal wound is a matter that should have been considered by the deceased before he committed himself to the task he undertook." - 5th DCA, Stinson v. State (Fl)

practicing since last on how to post the tweet just using the ID. However, I wonder how many GZ supporters will be go just to document the goings on:

Congratulations, Ottawa

Perfect Tweet posting (shame about content)




(A reminder to all... do NOT include one of these embedded tweets in a [Quote] box.)

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Daily Daft Posts From Justarse Quest

They just make stuff up

“…there is a witness who saw GZ on top of Trayvon when the gun was fired."

Not just the gullible old dears (worker cretins) who proudly announce they will not read the documents, but eagerly await one of the Alpha Cretins to tell them what is in them.
It is the Alpha Cretins themselves who claim expertise in many subjects, but have knowledge of none. They say they read all the documents, have analysed all the evidence, and consult with other experts (Leatherman lol). Yet despite all that, they are IGNORANT of even the most basic facts, and/or they blatantly lie to deceive the poor dim worker cretins. They hype these poor old aged women up and keep the mass hysteria fueling the lynch mob mentality.



Please stick broadly to GZ case in this thread.

To discuss JQ, go to
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=63&p=21411#p21411

(More about Teeto’s “expert” status in the other thread)

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Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

The people at J.Q. are so misinformed. I read a remark a couple of days ago on Click Orlando. The dog pound goes over there and uses different names. One of them said George put his weight on Trayvon's back after he shot him and finished killing him. I get so angry and frustrated with these people. All George was doing was restraining him because he wasn't sure at first if he even had shot him. He did not know Trayvon was dead until later when they told him at the police department.

Yes. They are hate filled.
They post something.. made up... and then it becomes a fact to build on.

George clearly admitted to (and explained) getting on top of TM AFTER he shot him. Holding TM's hands spread. Quite reasonable in my mind. He really could not be sure TM was dead...

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I have to double check but I believe that the GZLegal site stated that they would not be posting about depositions until after they were over. I kind of got the feeling that they didn't want to advertise in advance to avoid possible problems with reporters, TM supporters, etc.

Deposing Crump would have brought all of that out.

Deb said it best: Teeto is delusional.



Evidence? What evidence? Certainly not the NEN call, which rather definitively sets the timeline of events.

And you might want to look up the statutory meaning of "stalk".



Sorry, Teeto; even if you had a shred of evidence that Zimmemran did either, Florida statutes don't consider mere "following" or "harassing" to constitute sufficient justification for the use of force in self-defense.



First, Teeto clearly simply ignores the physical evidence. Having someone break your nose, knock you to the ground, pin you to the ground, prevent you from getting up, and repeatedly knock your head into the ground every time you try to get up easily meets the statutory standard of reasonableness.

Second: the broken nose is prima facie evidence o felony aggravated battery, which is itself sufficient statutory justification for the use of lethal force in self-defense.



First, Florida self-defense statutes do not require one to exhaust every reasonable means of escape.

Second, Martin had established disparity of force over Zimmerman, and had him pinned to the ground, actively preventing him from trying to get up. Zimmerman had no means or opportunity to escape.



Irrelevant. Teeto is just babbling here.



Zimmerman was a resident of RTL, and had every right to be in the public areas of the community.



Zimmerman was licensed to carry a concealed weapon, and was carrying a legal firearm.



Teeto suffers from cranial-rectal inversion here.



No such witness has been disclosed in the State's discovery thus far. As far as I know, there are no eyewitnesses to the actual shooting itself, period.



Zimmerman said that he had Martin in a wrist lock? [citation needed]



Amazingly well-restrained for someone with an allegedly depraved mind, no?



At this point, I must conclude that Teeto is incapable of reading and understanding Florida statutes.



A faulty conclusion derived from specious claims, obvious contradictions of discovery evidence and eyewitness accounts, and blatant ignorance of Florida statutes.



What pat of the trajectory do you fail to understand? The bullet's trajectory is already well-established.



Where is the evidence that Zimmerman assaulted Martin, or otherwise acted as the initial aggressor of a physical altercation?



Still not required under Florida statutes.

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"That the attacker sustained a mortal wound is a matter that should have been considered by the deceased before he committed himself to the task he undertook." - 5th DCA, Stinson v. State (Fl)

But you missed the most hideous "explanation" for GZ restraining TM, by those vile JQers: he was attempting to bleed TM out to make him die faster. For real.

To call them "misinformed" is being far too nice.

Excellent reply, Chip - truly well done as always. This type of response is appreciated, especially knowing all the hard work it takes to put this kind of reasoning together in such an articulate way.

Now, it's a shame those JQ frauds windbags aren't capable of understanding such deep logic.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

O’Mara describing the Dee Dee interview?

“We know there was a camera there”

So does Gutman have a video of that farcical event?

Also sounds like MOM is talking about PING LOGS for TM phone... finally.

Which he got only after visiting FDLE. 9th January 2013

It is unclear to me if these Ping Logs cover the 26th? That could compensate in part for the mysteriously missing GPS data from the phone for 26th February.

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Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

The comparison of those ping logs against the phone data dump provided by the State will make certain things clear:

1. Either the phone *was* pinging in the minutes leading up to the altercation, or it *was not* pinging
2. If the phone *was not* pinging, then Dee Dee is proven to be a complete fabrication
3. If the phone *was* pinging, and the State *can not* produce the missing data, then evidence in the State's possession - Martin's cell phone - was compromised
4. If the phone *was* pinging, and the State *can* produce the missing data, then the State has violated either or both of Rule 3.220 and Brady

I suppose the State can pick their poison, eh?

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"That the attacker sustained a mortal wound is a matter that should have been considered by the deceased before he committed himself to the task he undertook." - 5th DCA, Stinson v. State (Fl)

And as a separate point: how is this not a clear, blatant violation of Rule 3.220, that the defense had to go to FDLE and retrieve evidence this is inherently either inculpatory or exculpatory?

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"That the attacker sustained a mortal wound is a matter that should have been considered by the deceased before he committed himself to the task he undertook." - 5th DCA, Stinson v. State (Fl)

Yes... As layman using "common sense"... why have there not been Motions and formal complaints about missing Discovery.

Looks like clear violations to me. And IF evidence such as ping logs refute some of the basic premises, even the PCA itself... why have they been allowed to stay hidden and so perpetuate a farce for a year?

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Notice of Hearing for March 5, 2013

on 08 February 2013.
The following NOTICE OF HEARING has been filed with the Court:

NOTICE OF HEARING
http://184.172.211.159/~gzdocs/document ... earing.pdf

Documents archive thread:
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=195&p=21462#p21462

Hearing thread (3-5-13):
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=757

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Forensic evidence both supports, casts doubt on Zimmerman claims

Review of evidence finds good and bad for Trayvon Martin's accused killer

Author: Tony Pipitone WKMG-Local 6 News, Problem Solver, tpipitone@clickorlando.com
Published On: Feb 08 2013 11:11:59 PM EST Updated On: Feb 09 2013 12:13:42 AM EST

SANFORD, Fla. -Forensic evidence compiled in the killing of Trayvon Martin supports George Zimmerman's claim that Martin was leaning over him when he fired his gun, but casts doubt on Zimmerman's timeline on the night he shot and killed the unarmed teen, according to a review by a forensic expert for Local 6.

Michael Knox, a retired Jacksonville Sheriff's Office detective and crime scene investigator, published some of the findings in his book, "Intermediate Range: The Forensic Evidence in the Killing of Trayvon Martin" (available through Amazon.com here).

Knox and Local 6 calculated the exact moment Zimmerman slammed shut his door as he left his truck at 7:11:48 p.m. on Feb. 26, 2011 to follow Martin through the Retreat at Twin Lakes community.

Knox then retraced Zimmerman's footsteps, as Zimmerman described them in a reenactment for police videotaped the day after the shooting, and compared the results to a recording of Zimmerman's nonemergency call to Sanford police.

Among his conclusions:

• If Zimmerman's retelling of the event were accurate, the confrontation Zimmerman described with Martin would have occurred much sooner than it actually did;
  
• Zimmerman covered more time and distance after leaving his truck that night than he revealed to police;
  
• Based on the times and distances Zimmerman said he covered, Zimmerman would have still been on the phone with Sanford police when he claims he was attacked by Martin;
  
• Had Martin walked directly to his destination, his father’s girlfriend's townhome, he would have made it there safely before Zimmerman ended his nonemergency call to Sanford police;
  
• Martin was in fact leaning over Zimmerman when the fatal shot was fired, just as Zimmerman has maintained.
  
  To reach that last conclusion, Knox examined both a Florida Department of Law Enforcement report on the gunshot's impact to the hooded sweatshirt Martin was wearing and the autopsy report describing the gunshot wound to the body.

...more at link
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Forens ... index.html

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light