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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 2:21 am 
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The Creek

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 2:22 am 
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just skimmed so lots of catching up for me...kid is a cute imp and this is a media magnet. Faulty crystal ball says Beth Holloway gonna piss off Nancy Grace :D and they're both gonna grate on the auditory nerves and make me flip the boob tube on


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 3:01 am 
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To me kid in creek seems likely.

I KNOW its been searched... but I recall person going missing near where I live... a piddling tourist trail in the bush (forest). Sort of trail people walk/stroll in normal clothing, maybe take kids and pushchairs. Small creeks in the area that many of us regularly walked along (feet wet only) as alternative trail. A trickle of water. The entire area and all tiny creeks searched and researched but found nothing.
Body (of a grown man) eventually found in a pool below a "waterfall"

Also remember Caylee Anthony's body (about same age as Deorr) was searched for, and missed, by volunteers and THE experts (Texas EquuSearch (TES)) in terrain perhaps easier to search than the area around that camp site and the 3? miles of creek down to the reservoir (and the reservoir itself). Caylee's body was just feet off a road with a school and private homes. There has been much said to explain/excuse the fact that searchers failed to find Caylee's body, but fact remains searchers walked right past it while supposedly doing a thorough and repeated search.

I would say the search for Deorr's remains be continued... done again.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 12:56 pm 
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Rumpole wrote:
I read a comment regarding the vid in the above article, opining on the theory that Deorr likely drowned in the creek, and his body swept away...

Quote:
"Most likely the child stepped over the edge of the steep bank and tumbled into the creek , just a bounce or two and he is in the water , no scent trail for dogs to follow

Look at the creek , many deep spots , water runs over large rocks , around large rocks , and under large rocks. The body is likely caught deep under one of those rocks , held there by the undercurrent , invisible to searchers , not traceable by dogs

It even looks like the water stream percolates underground in one place and rejoins again on the left side at 1:57 in the video

Plenty of places to trap a small body that is 1/10 the the size of some rocks
And the water current running under the rock will hold it there for a long time."


Yes, falling into the creek and being swept away is a definite possibility. Some wonder why the oversized cowboy boots he was wearing were never found, nor any of his clothing, nothing, no clues according to the sheriff. The problem some folks have with the falling into the creek theory is that the dogs could not find the child's scent at this campground. That is what was so puzzling to the sheriff.
Quote:
"Lemhi County immediately initiated a search. Responders included the Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office, Salmon Police Department, Salmon Search and Rescue, and Leadore EMTs. After a comprehensive search of the immediate area surrounding the campground, other resources were dispatched including divers from the Salmon Search and Rescue and Lemhi CSO, search dogs from Search and Rescue and Salmon PD, horseback resources from the Salmon and Leadore area and others. Other resources on scene include a helicopter, searchers on horseback, ATVs and many people on foot."
http://pix11.com/2015/07/13/grandmother ... -vanished/

Quote:
"Sheriff Lynn Bowerman told the Lemhi County Commissioners Monday, July 13, that based on the intense and extensive search conducted near Leadore for two year old Deorr Kunz Jr., it doesn’t make sense that the boy was not found.
Bowerman said the trained search dogs found nothing and kept coming back to the camp. Helicopters were used day and night to fly the area and fly over Stone Reservoir which is shallow enough to see to the bottom. He said divers explored the lake while approximately 150 volunteers on foot and on horseback conducted a thorough three mile grid-search of Timber Creek. The possibility of abduction by bear, wolf or mountain lion is not being ruled out although no trace of the boy or his apparel, which included oversized cowboy boots, was found.
The small boy disappeared Friday, July 10, from the Timber Creek Campground at Stone Reservoir. Bowerman said Timber Creek terrain is steep and rugged and is a mix of sagebrush and timber. He said given the proven expertise of the dogs the boy should have been found the first day.
Commissioner Chairman Rick Snyder described the area where the family was camped as being at the lake’s outlet which is very steep with very fast moving water flowing through brush and trees and limbs, all of which were pulled apart by searchers. Bowerman said people in wet suits were in the creek searching every hole."
http://lemhiweb.com/content/search-recap

Quote:
‘We’ve literally torn that country apart and found absolutely not one clue,’ Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman told FoxNews.com.
‘We conducted an exhaustive search of the area, which included eight agencies, multiple dog search groups and well over 100 people.’

Quote:
8/18/2015
Nate Eaton: “Talk a little bit about the cremains that were dumped into, because the dogs were getting a scent”

Sheriff Bowerman: “Right. Unbeknownst to us while we were doing our grid search, someone came in and wanted to deposit cremains of a loved one at that site, and I’m assuming it’s a favorite site of their loved one, and without thinking, they deposited cremains, not realizing they were in the middle of a crime scene and what it would do. Within a couple days our dogs were telling us we need to spend more time up at the reservoir, and so we dove it for 2-3 more days and put side-scan sonar, and then we find out from one of our BLM (?) Rangers that they stopped this individual coming out and were informed they had deposited some cremains in the reservoir.”


As if they needed more obstacles, as stated above, someone came in and deposited some cremains in the reservoir.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 5:18 pm 
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Search intensifies in Idaho for missing toddler
Wednesday, July 15, 2015 - 01:13

Video (more shots of creek and terrain)
http://www.reuters.com/video/2015/07/15 ... =364961455

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 2:19 am 
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Old news... I created a "Thursday" and moved 2 Friday bullet points back a day.....


Deorr Kunz disappearance: A timeline of events
Updated at 5:57 pm, July 19th, 2015 By: Nate Eaton,



Thursday July 9
  • Deorr Kunz Jr, his father, mother, great-grandfather, and a family friend travel 120 miles from Idaho Falls to Timber Creek Campground in Leadore.
  • The campsite is remote and takes around two and a half hours to drive to from Idaho Falls.

Friday July 10
  • At 2:28 p.m., Deorr’s mother, Jessica Mitchell, calls 911 and reports her son missing.
  • Search crews arrive and begin to look for the toddler.

Saturday July 11
  • Searchers look on horseback, ATVs, foot, and in water for Deorr. They focus on a two and a half mile radius around the campground.
  • One area of concern is a creek about 15 yards away from the campsite. The area is searched numerous times.

Sunday July 12
  • The Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office reports nearly 200 volunteers show up to look for Deorr. His grandmother tells EastIdahoNews.com it appears the two-year-old “just vanished.”
  • Volunteer search efforts are suspended but deputies say trained professionals will continue to look for the boy.

Monday July 13
  • In their only interview, Deorr’s parents explain what happened the previous Friday afternoon.
  • They say they no longer believe he’s lost but think someone may have abducted their son and make a plea for his safe return.
  • That evening around 200 people gather in Idaho Falls for a candlelight vigil.

Tuesday and Wednesday July 14 & 15
  • Search efforts continue near the campground. Dive crews focus on the Stone Reservoir located about a quarter of a mile from where the family was camping.
  • Deorr’s parents remain camped near the site as deputies search the creek once again and determine Deorr is not there.

Thursday July 16
  • A representative from the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children arrives in Leadore.
  • Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn D. Bowerman posts an update on Facebook clarifying remarks on the search.
  • National media are now covering the story, including HLN’s The Nancy Grace show.

Friday July 17
  • The Bonneville County Sheriff’s dive team is called in to help search the reservoir. Divers use a sonar robot to assist in foggy waters.
  • Crews on horseback return to the hills near the campground.

Saturday July 18
  • It’s Deorr’s fathers birthday. He spends the day camped yards away from where his son disappeared.
  • Search efforts continue.

Sunday July 19
  • It’s been 10 days since Deorr was last seen.
  • The Timber Creek campground has been searched dozens of times.
  • Crews have scoured the Stone Reservoir and Creek.
  • Investigators release few new details and Deorr’s family remains desperate for answers. Up to this point, no evidence has been found to suggest where the two-year-old boy may be.

....more at link
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/de ... of-events/

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 3:06 am 
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I am still catching up on old news.. maybe a good refresher for others as well?


911 call reporting missing toddler released
Chelsea Brentzel
POSTED: 10:51 PM MDT Jul 15, 2015

http://www.localnews8.com/news/911-call ... d/34192558



Transcript
Lemhi County Sheriff's Office released the 911 call of the mother reporting he was missing.
This was a phone call no parent ever wants to make

    "What's the address of your emergency?"
    "Um, I'm actually camping in leadore, just outside of Leadore."
    "Uh huh."
    "Um, my 2-year-old son, Um, we can't find him."

Jessica Mitchell's voice is trembling on the other end.
    "How long has he been missing?"
    "About an hour."
    "an hour?"
    "Yeah."

The last place the family says they saw Deorr Kunz Jr. was Timber Creek campground, 10 miles west of Leadore.
    "Jessica?"
    "Yeah."
    "OK, what is he wearing?"
    "Cowboy boots, a blue um pair of pajama pants, and a camo jacket."

The dispatcher asks for a discription of the toddler.
    "How tall is he? Hello?"
    "I, I'm not exactly sure, he's about three..."
    "Are you there?"
    "Yeah."
    "OK."
    "Is your husband calling too?"
    "All down where we were camping at and we can't find him at all."
    "OK, hang on."

Then dispatch gives the mother instructions.
    "OK, we need you to stay within cell service"
    "OK."
    "We've got people on the way."
    "Thank you."

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 3:38 am 
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35y old Isaac Reinwand

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 3:39 am 
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Deorr Kunz Sr. and Jessica Mitchell

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 5:09 am 
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Timber Creek Campground

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 1:54 pm 
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Thanks Rump, now I can try and wrap my ahead around this disturbing story.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 2:58 pm 
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Thanks from me too. You are doing a great job providing information on this story. :)


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 3:01 pm 
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THX JW and suzet
Like the investigation itself, I think I am stalled now... awaiting more info.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 3:23 am 
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Hi suzet :28

I have been reading and catching up on this case since it was posted here. I still have more to look at.

I'm leaning towards an abduction. I would like to find out if they brought in dogs that day or the next day (when the dogs hit on the cremation ashes someone dumped). If he got in the water somehow, I think they would have found him with all the extensive searching they have done and the amount of time that has elapsed. I'd like to know which of the two roads in the aerial maps leads off to where the parents were. I thought the interview with the parents was exceptional. No way do I think there is foul play on their part.

I've got to almost rule out GGpa and friend, not enough info yet on them AND there was such a short period of time when the parents were gone. I'm not going to go read on FB but want to read more about it in the news.

Rumpole, you've done an awesome job with all the extras posted :)


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 3:44 am 
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THX Dakota.

The problem I have with abduction is.... from the outset... what are the chances of a person (or persons) who are prepared to commit such a serious offense,(in the market to snatch a child as it were) being ready, willing and able, out miles from nowhere at exact time as a small child is momentarily available? Not a blackmail thing where some planning goes into at least snatching a child. They would have to see and decide to snatch in minutes.. not knowing how long they had to do that. To be seen doing that and then caught could well mean life in prison. Not something people easily decide to do when about to set up camp themselves. Or otherwise are they local. Are people known to drive miles from anywhere hoping to come across a child unattended for a few minutes? It all seems infinitely unlikely.
If timeline stated is true then likely a car (SUV) fleeing the scene with kidnapped child would likely have met cops coming the other way.
Was the abductor on his way to camp at same place, or near? If so not hiding his presence on the way there, so likely to have been spotted traveling to the campsite. I mean... such a person could not know he wasn't spotted and remembered traveling to the campsite.


ETA
Putting it another way.
As we are now reading, there are LOTS of dangers when you are in the wilderness, far from civilization. The very terrain, with rocks and streams etc and the possibility of getting lost in forest. Mother nature. Storms, earthquakes. Volcanoes!!! Poisonous plants. Toxic gasses. Quick sand. Spiders, snakes... other wild animals wolves, mountain lions, bears, alligators, killer rabbits etc.

BUT...... HUMAN child predators roaming is NOT a high probability hazard

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 4:00 am 
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Rumpole wrote:
Are people known to drive miles from anywhere hoping to come across a child unattended for a few minutes?

I say yes. The father said it was noisy around there. I am thinking about someone who spotted them, maybe vehicle was far away, and had been stalking them for a period of time, reasons unknown -- robbery, to hijack the truck, etc. Children are abducted all the time under unrealistic circumstances and the perp gets away after being patient. Unfortunately, whatever the reason for the disappearance, I don't think GGpa & friend were paying much attention as to what was going on.

You do makes some excellent points.

Like you, I need to know more and reserve the right to change my mind. :D


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 4:08 am 
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Children are abducted "all the time" in cities and towns where there are MANY instances of a child unattended (most nothing happens) that may on rare occasion coincide with a opportunistic child predator.

I just dont see it at all likely out in the wilderness......that one followed them or was there by chance.

On the face of the evidence. but for a momentary lapse of attention by ALL FOUR adults, a predator might never have had an opportunity. The likelihood of snatching a child about as likely as catching a fish in a water barrel. Just not expected to happen at all. Predators skulk around where there are children.. not out in the wilderness where there are tress and rocks (Mostly)

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 4:29 am 
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As I alluded. When I was younger, I spent a lot of time "tramping" (hiking) in areas not unlike what I see in Videos of Timber Creek. In groups and alone, breaking the rules, exploring off trails, following creeks like the one at Timber Creek, walking alongside creeks, often IN the creek bed.. (its often the shortest, easiest trail if you don't mind wet boots).
I can EASILY believe a body of a small child could be in a creek, in a pool, under weeds at the edge, wedged under rock or tree debris. You could walk past within inches and not see it. And away from the creek a small body could be inches away and not seen among brush and weed. Searchers no doubt did a "thorough search" but they could miss a small body. The example I cited of a grown man's body found in an area near here, was found AFTER multiple PROFESSIONAL searches found nothing in the creek in question.. as well as surrounding forest... and that creek, as far as I recall, was smaller and slower moving that the one at Timber Creek. It was a grown man and not a 2yr old small infant.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 12:06 pm 
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I didn't even know about this case until I read it here so my opinion is just a general thought about the peripherals of the case.

If I understand right the search dogs picked up no scent of the boy at the campsite? My opinion is Deorr was never there.

Suzet my experience with the victim advocate forums that I have let darken my computer screen is that the majority of posters are far more interested in hating whoever they deem guilty (facts be damned), vilifying that person, making up wild scenarios to justify their hate, sanctifying any victim to the point of absurdity, and finding like minded individuals to spew that hate and give accolades to their hate. They seem to be folks who probably don't get out of the house much and are pretty much viewed as pariahs when they do get out into the sunlight.

In short, likely a circle of mean spirited homely nutters who fight back at a society which has rejected them by feeling superior to some of the worst dredges of society. Of course they may all be attorneys, doctors, scholars, charity workers and Mensa members who just happen to like playing dullards on the net :Gslap

Hello Dakota, nice to meet you.

Thanks to Rumpole :give , Suzet :give and Dakota for their contributions :69

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 2:10 pm 
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Carmelita wrote:
My opinion is Deorr was never there.

Hello, Carm :28
I thought about this after searching for images of him in the PJs and camo jacket he was wearing. Perhaps photos, if taken, is part of the evidence turned over to the FBI?

Rumpole, I hear ya. :)


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