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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:09 am 
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Listening to interview ...dad says several times he didn't know the area...so why was he going 1/2 a mile down the road to where he knew there was cell reception? One bar

He doesn't say if the kid was grubby during their visit to the store or if the kid picked a candy bar treat. He and his black truck were with cops at 6pm at camp since 1pm. It's like he's more concerned with what people are saying on social media than he is afraid for his child.

She's holding the blanket and idk something not right ...not just that a child that age doesn't willingly leave the blanket, they scream if someone tries to separate them from their blanket.

Dad talking about nap time, calling over about the minnows ...if it's nap time & you left him w grandpa to settle down why would you delay nap vs plan it as a post nap thing to do? If grandpa heard him & he heard grandpa then why wouldn't anyone hear a pissed off toddler at nap time being separated from their blanky?
None of this makes sense.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:32 pm 
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The blanket. Anyone who has a kiddo with a blanket attachment knows that blanket doesn't look like it has been loved on and repeatedly washed for almost 3 years.

Might not have been an angry toddler separated from his blanket, it may have been a curious toddler who fell into the creek.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:08 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:46 pm 
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*snipped by me*
Rumpole wrote:
"
And dogs!!
Dogs, like people, come in degrees of competence and experience. In court cases (such as Casey Anthony) a dogs training/experience/success rate is scrutinized. I heard mention of 2 local dogs. How good are they? How many live people/dead bodies have they found? There were possessions (blankie) of Deorr there...so no scent at camp site is just not true. No trail? Could be reasons for that. Lots of extraneous (human and natural) smells around a camp site. And body in fast moving water likely leaves no scent trail.


Well, Rump, there were many dogs from different organizations and towns. I believe there were initially tracking dogs, then air scent dogs, and also cadaver dogs, but I'll check to make sure which dogs were there. The two local dogs were the first dogs on the scene. The sheriff said that with their track record, they should have found the boy.

Being skeptical about the parents, as I am, we only have their word that the blankie and the other items were the originals that belonged to the child. In fact, the dad made a point of saying they were the originals (in a kind of odd way - he actually said they were replicas, but I think he meant to say they weren't replicas). I wondered why he found it necessary to point that out. Did he think we wouldn't believe him? I know my theories may seem far fetched, but who really knows what to think with such little to go on.

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I get what you are saying suzet, and I agree we dont know what GGD and Reinwand have told police, but......

I do think cops would have ENSURED that GGP and Reinwand actually SAW Deorr at the camp. I could be wrong. It is a simple and important point to clarify. IIRC The parents in interview talk of GGD saying he SAW Deorr go after parents parents.



I do not take everything the parents say as the truth. So if they say GGrandpa said he saw the boy, it doesn't carry much, if any, weight with me. We haven't heard GGrandpa say that he saw the child at camp and all we got out of Reinwand was "mmm hmmm." Was he even listening to the question?

I don't think LE would think it was a big deal if Reinwand didn't see the child at camp. Reinwand, according to rumor, said he was fishing. If he tied one on the night before, (we all saw that video, right?) he could have been passed out in his tent all morning and that is if we believe GGrandfather and Reinwand arrived on Thursday and not Friday. No one ever said exactly what day they arrived. Sheriff said "the family" arrived on Thursday night. The family could have been just the parents and the child and not the two male campers.

Or let's say the two male campers saw little Deorr on Thursday night, but never saw him on Friday and just assumed he was there on Friday. I know this sounds far fetched to you, Rump, but the difference between us is that you believe the parents and I don't, but I do enjoy and appreciate hearing everyone's theories.

**************

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Listening to parents... their story would NOT hold up unless GGD was at least in some agreement. I am sure cops would be on to something so basic.

DK snr:
"He was playing with Grandpa"
"GGD said ... he came up to you"

I just think Cops would have ensured that GGD and IR actually confirmed that Deorr was at the camp.


Maybe the cops are onto something. Maybe that's why no one has ever heard anything straight from GGD's own mouth. Lots of "he said" and hearsay, but nothing else.

Also, I think Deorr sr, father of the little boy, could have used his own words to describe what the GGrandfather said when Deorr sr asked him where little Deorr was, not the exact words the GGrandfather used when asked where little Deorr was, when the couple came back from exploring. Maybe he didn't say it exactly as the dad said he did. Maybe it didn't happen that way at all. Sorry, that doesn't make much sense. I'm having trouble putting it into words. There is a reason, imo, we have never heard one single word from the GGrandfather. They didn't even name him in the press until 6 weeks after the child went missing. That is just nuts, imo. He was supposedly one of the last people to see the little boy alive and we didn't even know his name all that time?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:57 pm 
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Carmelita wrote:
Thanks for sharing your thoughts Suzet especially since you've read and viewed a heck of a lot more than me on the case.

I still don't have a strong opinion any which way. Too often "grieving" parents turn out to be murderers but then again the wilderness is a great deceiver especially with a fast moving stream and a body of water.

The fact that the employee who saw the filthy crying blonde boy with a man who had a black truck, is not giving any interviews is curious.

Another curious thing was the DeOrr Sr. response to the reporter mentioning the black truck situation, DeOrr immediately said something about "the thing of it is" that he himself has a black truck. I'm a good observer of human nature/behavior and I thought that DeOrr took some amusement about the coincidence. I thought it was one odd moment in an interview filled with odd moments.


*bolded by me*

OK, I'm going to sound snarky, but the interview did seem to be "all about him."


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:03 am 
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Lurking Reader wrote:
Listening to interview ...dad says several times he didn't know the area...so why was he going 1/2 a mile down the road to where he knew there was cell reception? One bar

He doesn't say if the kid was grubby during their visit to the store or if the kid picked a candy bar treat. He and his black truck were with cops at 6pm at camp since 1pm. It's like he's more concerned with what people are saying on social media than he is afraid for his child.

She's holding the blanket and idk something not right ...not just that a child that age doesn't willingly leave the blanket, they scream if someone tries to separate them from their blanket.

Dad talking about nap time, calling over about the minnows ...if it's nap time & you left him w grandpa to settle down why would you delay nap vs plan it as a post nap thing to do? If grandpa heard him & he heard grandpa then why wouldn't anyone hear a pissed off toddler at nap time being separated from their blanky?
None of this makes sense.


Yes, I agree. The whole thing about going 1/2 mile down the road left me a bit baffled.
And why not just wait to see if Jessica (the mother) got through first?

The parents do seem to be obsessively concerned with what people are saying on social media. It's all very strange imo. I couldn't say how people handle such a devastating tragedy, but something just seems off here, imo.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:17 am 
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Carmelita wrote:
The blanket. Anyone who has a kiddo with a blanket attachment knows that blanket doesn't look like it has been loved on and repeatedly washed for almost 3 years.

Might not have been an angry toddler separated from his blanket, it may have been a curious toddler who fell into the creek.


You're not the first one to point out that the blanket looks too nice to be much loved or even one that was dragged around a campsite. I'm trying to find a video of the interview that is not blurry to see the blanket for myself. For some reason the interview is coming up blurry on my screen. I'll try viewing it tomorrow.

And unfortunately this is going to sound really bad, but I felt that the reason the parents were sticking to the abduction theory so adamantly was because, that way, if the poor child's body is found with anything at all that resembles foul play, that could all be blamed on an abductor.


Last edited by suzet on Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:25 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:20 am 
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Rump, thanks for posting the hunting flyer. I don't know why I do have a feeling this child body will be found. It's nothing but a feeling. Maybe wishful thinking. Poor little guy.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:27 am 
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SNIPPED mercilessly by me.... :)

suzet wrote:

....Rump, but the difference between us is that you believe the parents and I don't....

Maybe the cops are onto something. Maybe that's why no one has ever heard anything straight from GGD's own mouth. Lots of "he said" and hearsay, but nothing else.

I believe the parents only as a "working position" until I see contradictory testimony. (GGD, IR) or evidence.
I agree we dont KNOW what cops know and are thinking, but as I said, I would have expected them to treat parents differently at the time, and since, if they suspected them of "foul play" More questioning and likely the parents "lawyered up" in reaction to that. ( I believe parents are NOT lawyered up.. which in USA is a big deal I would think.. EVERYBODY gets a lawyer as soon as anything happens). The fact that they have not got a lawyer is circumstantial evidence that they have nothing to hide (perhaps)

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:33 am 
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As far as blankie goes....

Our first child had SEVERAL "clones" All looked relatively pristine.
Simple patterned material that my wife made several clones out of... so could always wash one and slip in a "ringer"
Second child imprinted on something more unique.. which did literally start to fall to bits... so clever wife sewed bits of it onto blankie substitutes (from 1st child).
Just sayin' Blankie situation can vary from child to child :cool

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:38 am 
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Dakota wrote:
I am glad you did, suzet, always do post them. This is the most "friendly-forum" for unpopular opinions I know of. :)

I left WS during the Casey Anthony trial, recently returned to find it worse. I'm not into the FB crime discussions after joining one re Jessica Chambers early on.

Since this is the only forum I follow, your information about what is being discussed at other places is interesting, but I know there are a lot of speculations. I base my thoughts on facts, so my theory that little Deorr could have been abducted, with no facts, is way out there. :roll

And so far, unpopular. :D


Hi Dakota! :28
I'm sure we must have run into each other on WS during the Casey Anthony case. Your name sounds familiar. I left WS during the Haleigh C case when it seemed like some of the regular posters had turned into Ronald Cummings groupies. It was nauseating. I go back to WS now and then, if I find an interesting case. I don't post much. I find it an almost impossible atmosphere over there. The mod power trips are beyond belief. But enough of that. Thanks for the hello and the kind welcome. :)


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:49 am 
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Rumpole wrote:
SNIPPED mercilessly by me.... :)

I believe the parents only as a "working position" until I see contradictory testimony. (GGD, IR) or evidence.
I agree we dont KNOW what cops know and are thinking, but as I said, I would have expected them to treat parents differently at the time, and since, if they suspected them of "foul play" More questioning and likely the parents "lawyered up" in reaction to that. ( I believe parents are NOT lawyered up.. which in USA is a big deal I would think.. EVERYBODY gets a lawyer as soon as anything happens. The fact that they have not got a lawyer is circumstantial evidence that they have nothing to hide (perhaps)


Some folks say that sometimes cops do not let certain people know they are on to them so that certain people will keep talking to the cops and not lawyer up. You're right, I don't think the parents have lawyered up. I think we'd know if they did.

The cops did search the vehicles and homes of the parents, GGpa, and, I believe, Reinwand. I'm sure it's standard procedure, but we do know that certain physical evidence and behavioral evidence was sent to the FBI. I think if the parents do lawyer up, it will be when the results of the tests come back from the FBI or if/when the body is found. Poor little guy.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:01 am 
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If cops had suspicions.... the time to "break" the parents would have been immediately... as I said, interview all 4 adults extensively.. to the point where they would all lawyer up. Memories fade (and distort), so any witness testimony needs to be done ASAP for that reason any way, and if there is likely to be discrepancies between witnesses they need to be found and pursued at the time.
I just dont see the Cops playing a long game like this.

They would (IMO) want to interrogate, break the parents, find a possible REAL location for the body, if not the campsite.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:55 am 
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Even though Rumpole and I have differing theories of what happened, I too believe the parents story to be fact. I just watched it again to pick up on what others have eluded to. :)

The first time I watched, I had just watched a documentary about Darlie Routier, Susan Smith and Diane Downs ... seeing their initial interviews getting picked apart. Non-related I know, but I had a positive feeling about little Deorr's parents. I saw Sr,'s excitement and non-stop talking as a positive. He had no hesitation to what he was telling. Not letting his wife say much and talking over her, could be a circumstance in their every day marital life (guessing).

The only thing that has me puzzled to date, is that there are NO photos of little Deorr at the camp site, that we know of. I think this is odd, at that age it seems like a pic or two would have been taken by the parents. BUT, after going through a Google image search, it doesn't look like the parents took many photos at all .. but there are some fishing photos from a previous outing, so I'm back to square one in my thinking.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:33 am 
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Carmelita wrote:
The blanket. Anyone who has a kiddo with a blanket attachment knows that blanket doesn't look like it has been loved on and repeatedly washed for almost 3 years.

Might not have been an angry toddler separated from his blanket, it may have been a curious toddler who fell into the creek.



Raised two who thought their 'lovies' were more real than mom/dad. Grandson almost 5 recently stopped dragging blankie room to room , in bike basket ...tied as a cape, as a lasso...bombs away ball from loft to family room...pretty side up on fleece still looks great! Wash/dry in a zippered pillowcase with baby's crib, then bed linen ...best way to beat allergies.

I'll go with curious toddler...Deorr pics show him to be all boy with a large swath of imp :51

Can't buy into creek or reserevoir, say he knew he shouldn't go unattended...eluded both parents and grandpa....I'm confident he didn't elude the efforts of the water search teams. They do not ever rule out a body of water unless they are sure ...they don't want to take away hope but their job is closing that door...and they took it a step further saying no sign. They aren't saying gee we wish we treated the area like a crime scene, leaves a window open.

Water teams took the brunt on Kaylee ...WHY WASNT area searched...never the water team searched and missed her. These teams don't give up ...if they have a budget for training..they're picking a place they didn't rule out...a friend comes for vacation...they're diving, swimming or snorkeling and they aren't ruling the mud hole out till they checked every bank & poked the base looking for a previously unknown sinkhole, fissure or animal lair. The only thing worse than finding remains, is not finding remains in their world and they do it all for the chance of a live rescue.

Casey Anthony's parents were put thru the ringer & it's frustrating there are so many questions unresolved that place Deorrs parents/family in same boat without careful considered exploration. This case has too many things unresolved. :slap :slap


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:52 am 
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Rumpole wrote:
If cops had suspicions.... the time to "break" the parents would have been immediately... as I said, interview all 4 adults extensively.. to the point where they would all lawyer up. Memories fade (and distort), so any witness testimony needs to be done ASAP for that reason any way, and if there is likely to be discrepancies between witnesses they need to be found and pursued at the time.
I just dont see the Cops playing a long game like this.

They would (IMO) want to interrogate, break the parents, find a possible REAL location for the body, if not the campsite.


The problem there is the they lawyer up....police get nothin! They charge wrong and it's a reasonable doubt for the real defendant. I'm not thinking he is dead till there is no reasonable or credible hope to dispel those thoughts.

The problem with this long game that looks like mollycoddling is they aren't ruling anyone out...that is what precipitated protesters tramping up and down 50 feet from the remains of the baby they cared so much about instead of searching that easement.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 3:16 am 
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Well, I held off pushing the point, but......the "LONG game" notion is friggin nuts!!

And I DO NOT BELIEVE cops would ever be that nuts.

At the time of disappearance, if cops had even slightest hint that parents were lying (Deorr not brought to Timber creek Campsite) cops could not know (for instance) that the true story was that parents just left him and drove away. It is simply ridiculous to imagine the cops would play "lets wait and see for a month or two". Lets not upset parents.
Meanwhile Deorr is wandering ALIVE in the woods somewhere?????

Or even if dead.. at least his body might well be intact and findable at the time... not so likely months later.

I AM SURE THE COPS KNOW DEORR WAS AT THE CAMPSITE

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 4:30 am 
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I think DeOrr jr was at the campsite too. I think they haven't lawyered up because the outfit he works for is standing by his character, her family was at their side within hours, they have earned the respect of people who know them best and the people who know them best aren't raising big red flags.

These parents aren't Casey Anthony pawning her kid off on anyone willing to shoulder the responsibility she wouldn't. I see toddler camp boots and think this was a planned special event. Voicing (via digital ink) some of the initial :46 :doh WTF stuff from parent interview helped get wheels moving to look at stuff that didn't sit right.

Phone cut out on way in to camp...from get go or return from store...dad is a truck driver and cell reception locations are automatically stowed away like mile markers & overpass heights.

His employer is giving him paid time off and sent people to help...they're an extended family it hurts him to see trashed.

His caution about the abduction scenario...what I originally took as spewing a party line he doesn't believe is EXACTLY what that is...it's not that he doesn't hope it's true ...he's afraid to hope it's true because a parents worst fears of harm to their child at the hands of another make slipped through to another creek preferable. He isn't an experienced interviewee, he spewing the stuff closest to top of head.

My friends ex is a water team member in Florida, he is certified as a diver & instructor on all sorts of mixed gasses & depths. He came up here years ago to bring a 17 yo kid home. Spent 26 days training volunteers and professionals on various mixed gasses to justify the cost of these dives. He is the team leader who tells parents the door is closed, I held the puke bucket for this guy for days after he found the gator that snatched a three year old looking at rocks 20 feet from his parents camp chairs. A popular Volusia county park with covered pavilions for his sister's birthday party with 70 family members standing helpless as his dad tried to retrieve his son from the gators jaws.

Rick was puking because the kids mom stood in dads hospital room asking...are you sure? Maybe that gator had a chicken or a duck and my son got away. He has mandatory counseling after each rescue...he's the guy that floats divers outs of the underwater caves in Ocala National Forest without blinking or losing a nights sleep because divers families friends know the risks...all the assertive, fogging mirroring falalalal psych crap doesn't prepare them for fighting thru the denial DeOrr sr told in that interview.

These guys do hang off helicopter struts, they'll hang suspended and it doesn't matter above or below they are identifying every discarded bug spray can with a sigh of relief it isn't a dismembered limb with fabric remnants....that's what search teams hope no one will tell this family now or ever. They had heat sensing imaging going through the first night...they know a lost toddler outline vs any similar sized wildlife.

So to me the big mystery is...the clerk and anyone else we haven't heard about describing campers from nearby sites, visitors to the camp ground and the attention DeOrr sr spent on the viewpoint vantage disparities, above & below.

I can't recall which western state(s) but 25 years after a scouting Camper disappeared it was solved ...targeted from above. Same with a girl abducted from their family tent in the night as her sister slept. Both bodies were eventually found...their parents would rather they'd died any horrible accident than the deaths revealed in the postmortums.

The grandfather avoiding media...could just be his age, growing up in a time & mindset that our curiousity is our problem, his feelings aren't ours to armchair quarterback, his right not to be drawn & quarterd in the media as if the viewers are competent juries to impartially adjudicate the charges they lay against him.

So frustrating that another day is dawning with no answers for parents/family hoping DeOrr isn't the next Elizabeth Smart knowing he won't be if he is because he is too young to say ..I am DeOrr Kunz jr, I want my real mommy and daddy.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:53 pm 
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Suzet, you have brought a wealth of knowledge here and seem to know a lot so have some confidence in your opinions. Rumpole’s is a great place for having a rational discussion about facts. In the criminal/missing person cases that I’ve read about here I’ve seen the evidence form opinions. You are not letting your emotions form your opinions, regardless of facts like goes on elsewhere you are simply putting forth the facts as we know them and offering your opinion of those facts, that is a good thing.


You are suffering from “Nanny State Syndrome” NSS is caused by posting for a long period of time with biased moderators who push their agenda over the truth and allow their pet posters to post opinion as fact and even post under “hats” just to bolster the group psychosis while these same mods also penalize posters who do not bow to the group’s emotional hysteria.

Start your post with IMO and you are good to go, that is IMO :69

Rumpole, you can only lawyer up if you have the money to do so, have the mindset to do so, or some hot shot comes in and takes the case pro bono. So far it looks like that hasn’t happened here.

Lurking/Rumpole, every blanky has it’s own journey but this is a blanket that was supposedly a one and only it was supposedly dragged every where with DeOrr so the blanket shown IMO does not show that amount of “love.” As to the water, a tiny body could easily be unfound in the rapidly moving creek and water. There is a small lake near my folks house which was ruled out as a resting place for two young men, that is until their bodies were found in it.


Dakota I agree the parents may be totally innocent but there are a lot of oddities in the case which have a lot of different explanations. Which is not to say I think the parents are guilty of having harmed DeOrr, I am just not entirely comfortable with their stories, just perplexed by the totality of the situation.

FWIW the sheriff said he is 99% certain that DeOrr was at the campground. Hmmm…..

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:20 pm 
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Thanks Carm....

As far as moderating a forum goes.. I find hitting people with a wet fish... :fish

is far more satisfying than giving them a TO :cool

My point is (I think) the Sheriff (and others) HAD to be SURE Deorr was at the campsite, else he would have been derelict in his duty. I cant accept that the world has gone so mad that a LE officer would adopt the True Gossip Forum stance of "Dont bash the victim" (in this case parents) before facts are known.
As I said..... when Deorr went missing, if there was slightest hint he was never at the campsite then the parents (and other adults) HAD to be interrogated... up to and including waterboarding. At that time mere minutes could have effected the life or death of Deorr abandoned somewhere else (possibly), or his body being recovered and "case solved"

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