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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:45 am 
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:51 HOT DIGGIDY DOG! I did it right :Gslap


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:00 am 
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You did GREAT Mimi :91

(I added a little more "cowbell" (bold) to make it look purdy.)

Thanks for all the research and the links you post... :give

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:36 am 
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I couldn't find word of any death threats but anything is possible I guess. What a sad case and when the hospital quit feeding before she was moved would seem to confirm her death even more.

Thanks for the updates, Mimi.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:26 pm 
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Defining "Brain Dead" with some reference to both recent cases.....


Lights Out: A New Reckoning for Brain Death
Posted by Gary Greenberg
January 15, 2014

“Brain death” was introduced to the world, in 1968, by a committee at Harvard Medical School. “Responsible medical opinion,” the committee reported, “is ready to adopt new criteria for pronouncing death to have occurred in an individual sustaining irreversible coma as a result of permanent brain damage.” People on ventilators in intensive care units, their brains destroyed by trauma or disease, their hearts still going strong, may have been breathing, taking in nourishment, excreting waste, and healing from infection, but, at least in the opinion of doctors, they were dead—“heart-beating cadavers,” as bioethicists came to call them. Thirteen years later, the President’s Commission for the Study of Ethical Problems in Medicine and Biomedical and Behavioral Research endorsed this opinion, recommending that all states adopt statutes to give doctors the right to pronounce brain-dead people legally deceased. Today, in every state, if your brain, including the brain stem, has been irreversibly and completely destroyed, you are dead.
[....]

Each case is heartbreaking in its own way. In California, a thirteen-year-old girl, Jahi McMath, hemorrhaged after throat surgery performed at Oakland Children’s Hospital on December 9th. Blood loss deprived her brain of oxygen, and she lapsed into a coma. On December 11th, her doctor called the neurologist Robin Shanahan to determine, as the attending physician put it to the court, “whether or not Ms. McMath had sustained an irreversible cessation of all functions of the entire brain.” Shanahan detected no brain activity. On December 12th, McMath was declared dead, and a death certificate was issued.

While the families of the brain-dead usually take doctors at their word, or at least accept that their loved one’s life is over, something went wrong; both the hospital and the family lawyered up. The hospital portrayed the family as ignorant. “There is absolutely no medical possibility that Ms. McMath’s condition is reversible or that she will someday recover from death,” Shanahan told the California Superior Court. Meanwhile, experts consulted by the McMaths’ legal team—who included a “forensic-intelligence analyst,” an Ohio doctor who concluded that the teen-ager was reacting to the presence of her family and thus could not be dead, along with a lawyer known for his opposition to California’s malpractice laws—insisted that Oakland Children’s had misdiagnosed her.
[...]

In the Texas case, the roles of the family and hospital were reversed. Shortly before Thanksgiving, thirty-three-year-old Marlise Machado Muñoz got out of bed to check on her crying child in the middle of the night. Her husband, Erick Muñoz, a paramedic, got up and discovered her on their kitchen floor, unconscious and not breathing. She had been there at least an hour, and neither his attempts nor those of emergency-room personnel could revive her. At John Peter Smith Hospital, in Fort Worth, her heart stopped beating, multiple times. The family, in accordance with her wishes, told the staff not to make further resuscitation attempts, but was informed that the hospital could not comply: she was fourteen weeks pregnant, and Texas law forbids withdrawing or withholding life support from a pregnant woman until the fetus is viable and can be delivered. Later, according to Erick Muñoz, doctors told him his wife was brain-dead, but would be kept on the machines for at least another twelve weeks.
[....]

Our sense that a body is not dead until it is still and cold may be uninformed and unscientific, but so is our sense that the sun moves across the sky from east to west, and most of us live our lives as if this were the case. Of course, you can’t plan a rocket trip to the moon based on that understanding of heavenly movement, and you can’t harvest organs from a body based on our instinctual understanding of death. The concept of brain death has its uses; organ transplants save many lives. But it has its limits, too, as these cases show, chief among them the fact that it is a concept dreamed up by humans in their quest to overcome suffering, one that can have difficulty standing up to the power of love and the implacable mysteries of death.

Gary Greenberg is a practicing psychotherapist and the author of “The Book of Woe: The DSM and the Unmaking of Psychiatry.”

...more at link
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/e ... death.html

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:17 am 
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On the "death threat" issue. At first I found that odd. Then I after reading different places, and I saw a piece on news re abortion clinic protester line (where the Supreme Court heard arguments). I can see where some threats could be made. People stupid enough to want to break in and pull the plug on Jahi. There are a freak for every "cause" there is. IMHO of course :86 So possibly this is the type of threats they are receiving. Pretty messed up all way around.

THANKS RUMPOLE :84


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:26 am 
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Yes I agree there is no shortage of nutters out there...threats are possible.

But Jahi is dead..... so it would NOT be a death threat as such.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:28 am 
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Here is a good link for Jahi McMath for timeline, court documents and so forth. One of feature writers I believe they said use to be at Hinky Meter. Good source for fact stuff Trials & Tribulations

http://sprocket-trials.blogspot.com/201 ... links.html


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:36 am 
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I agree with this comment on this article. And to expand IMHO, with so many weird people if a parent or whomever besides a medical prof who has gone to school for this, dang, think of all the freaks deeming someone dead.. umm murder..

Comment:
Angel~H
• 8 minutes ago
Family member have never nor should they have a right to declare death. If they want a second opinion or even a third fine, I agree they should get that without question. This poor child has been dead for five weeks and she deserves to be given a final resting place. Its pretty pathetic that you have a groups of people using the body of a dead child to promote their own agendas.
And shame on The Washington Times to print this article that insults the intelligence of anyone who can read and see that brain death and PVS are not the same. The real outrage is the disservice and outright lies that you tell about organ donation. I bet that if you or someone that you love is ever in a need of an organ transplant that you would be singing a different song.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... ve-like-j/


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:48 am 
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Link to Civil Rights Lawsuit filing Dec 20 2013 by Jahi McMath Family

http://www.scribd.com/doc/195185964/Chi ... uit-filing

:Gslap don't you know that CHUMP hates he doesn't have a case like this :TF CIVIL RIGHTS ~ an agenda :Gslap


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:54 am 
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Rumpole wrote:
Yes I agree there is no shortage of nutters out there...threats are possible.

But Jahi is dead..... so it would NOT be a death threat as such.


True, on Jahi. But we don't know who threats are being made towards the family or attorney, which I take the comments of death threats to be. Notice family has all sudden last week or so stopped commenting on social media. I don't doubt there are nuts making threats. Just because I haven't seen or heard doesn't make it not so, look at those saying GZ didn't have. I just believe there are those out there who are just that mentally unstable in their thoughts and/or actions. I also agree that its right for their "threats" not to be made "public" as to give the freak more false importance or copy cat people ideas.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:05 am 
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arkansasmimi wrote:
Here is a good link for Jahi McMath for timeline, court documents and so forth. One of feature writers I believe they said use to be at Hinky Meter. Good source for fact stuff Trials & Tribulations

http://sprocket-trials.blogspot.com/201 ... links.html


Great Reference Mimi :give

I'll note some bits, but your link is the place to go for all of the reference and links.

Trials & Tribulations - Death of Jahi McMath QUICK LINKS
This page will be periodically updated.

Short Synopsis
On December 9th, 2013, Jahi McMath had three complicated surgical procedures to open up her upper airway. She’d undergone an adenotonsillectomy, uvulopalatopharyngoplasty, and submucous resection of bilateral inferior turbinates to treat her sleep apnea. On December 12th, she was declared brain dead.

PLAYERS
Jahi McMath - 13 year old who had three surgical procedures at once
Omari Sealey - Jahi's uncle and family spokesperson
Marvin Winkfield - (Stepfather?)
Nailah Winkfield - Mother to Jahi
Christopher Dolan - Family attorney

RELEVANT COURT DOCUMENTS
(Note: I still have many documents to add to this area. I'll get to it asap. Sprocket)
12-20-2013 Children's Hospital Opposition to Temp. Restraining Order
12-20-2013 Children's Hospital Physician's Declaration
12-23-2013 Dr. Paul Fisher's Report of his examination of Jahi
12-24-2013 Children's Hospital Opposition to Petition to Appoint Dr. Byrne an an Independent Expert
12-27-2013 Children's Hospital Atty Response to family atty
12-30-2013 Children's Hospital - Family Filed Appeal
12-30-2013 McMath Civil Rights Lawsuit Filing
01-03-2014 Supplemental Declaration of Dr. Heidi Flori

.... much MORE with LINKS
http://sprocket-trials.blogspot.com/201 ... links.html

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:27 am 
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Sadly this is not/nor will no be a case that just goes away.

Jahi bio Father name is Milton McMath. Here is an interesting on him.

http://clerkwebsvr1.oaklandnet.com/atta ... /14806.pdf

John Burris * Civil Rights Attorney of Milton McMath, Jahi father

http://www.johnburrislaw.com/CM/FSDP/Pr ... Rights.asp

John Burris comments on Jahi

http://postnewsgroup.com/blog/2014/01/0 ... hi-mcmath/


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:29 am 
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Surgery was on Dec 9 and declared brain dead on Dec 12. I would like to see the nurses notes from 9th til 11th. I am sure would be interesting read. Greatly sure so much more to story.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:36 am 
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I agree Mimi... this wont go away for a long time, but......

Perhaps once the corpse is returned for autopsy, and some sort of COD noted....then body buried (or cremated) there may well be a LONG period while law suits and negotiations take place but we don't hear about it. I do think after the body is laid to rest, then the case will be too. And at the end of it all? A settlement and a confidentiality clause I expect.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:41 am 
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I think this is all about getting some laws changed, Dolan has more less said that in diff ways. Also the cap on medical bills. That's what I think. I just feel bad for the little girl, family too. hope they realize it sooner than later.

No IMHO, I don't see it going away as a quite settlement. Too many agendas in play. Already set precident with how it has gone so far (released brain dead body). Also in the Civil Suit, I saw where Dolan said he had advised the family how to apply for home care (cant remb exactly what called). There are a lot of issues at play here. Makes me shiver.

Guess its one of those stay tuned things. I have wondered, if say she is in another state (which apparently all states have diff laws) when her heart stops beating, will THAT state issue a death cert? or will it reflect back to the CA Dec 12 2013?

Recently I saw on the news a man was declared dead (missing) and the judge said paraphrasing, nope you been declared dead lol :Gslap ok wasn't THAT simple, but ended up same.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:25 am 
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This is so heartbreaking and from my perspective it would seem that another underlying reason to want to keep someone alive is to avoid the dehydration/starving ending. In the article linked above in comments someone mentioned the Dunlap case of a man with a brain-dead Dx in which it was reversed. Seems unbelievable and someone else said it was a misdiagnosis. I'd like to read more about that case.

As far as nurse's notes, I know years back in some Chicago area hospitals a person could get a copy of their whole chart but not nurse's notes. Not sure if that was nationwide or if so does it still stand. It would be interesting to see them.

Thanks for posting the link to Sprocket's blog. I lost that link and meant to look it up but didn't get around to it yet. Very good source.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:04 pm 
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H/T "popsicle" at WS

I assume this is a recent tweet? The account is protected (now) so I can't see the actual tweet.

Quote:
Omar@_iamOMARI 12m
In other news...Jahi is doing very well!! Her conditioned has really improved since leaving CHO on January 5th.


https://twitter.com/_iamOMARI

Omari is the "mo money" uncle.... IMO he is lying and/or he is delusional.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:44 pm 
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arkansasmimi wrote:
:51 HOT DIGGIDY DOG! I did it right :Gslap

Mimi! :28

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:27 pm 
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Rumpole wrote:
I agree Mimi... this wont go away for a long time, but......

Perhaps once the corpse is returned for autopsy, and some sort of COD noted....then body buried (or cremated) there may well be a LONG period while law suits and negotiations take place but we don't hear about it. I do think after the body is laid to rest, then the case will be too. And at the end of it all? A settlement and a confidentiality clause I expect.



Just jumping in off this point BUT before a death certificate is generated, there must be a COD presented. This COD is the medical opinion WHY the individual is deceased and is presented by the treating physician(s) medical evaluation. Included in the standard death certificate is a time frame of the events leading to the demise.
SO I hypothesize that the certificate has 2 pieces of information listed as "pending": 1. is the section where yes/no questions are present regarding autopsy information and the MOD (manner of death) as "pending investigation" rather than one of the 5 standard classifications.
Also, the cause of death CAN be modified as more information is received throughout the investigative process.

:94


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:57 pm 
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Welcome to RT joypath :give

Thanks for the insight.

PS... you passed the "entrance exam".... managed to upload an avatar pic :)

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