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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:28 pm 
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Welcome Joypath, I've always enjoyed your posts!

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:39 am 
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H/T "popsicle" at WS....

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:33 am 
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Rumpole wrote:
I agree Mimi... this wont go away for a long time, but......

Perhaps once the corpse is returned for autopsy, and some sort of COD noted....then body buried (or cremated) there may well be a LONG period while law suits and negotiations take place but we don't hear about it. I do think after the body is laid to rest, then the case will be too. And at the end of it all? A settlement and a confidentiality clause I expect.

joypath wrote:
Just jumping in off this point BUT before a death certificate is generated, there must be a COD presented. This COD is the medical opinion WHY the individual is deceased and is presented by the treating physician(s) medical evaluation. Included in the standard death certificate is a time frame of the events leading to the demise.
SO I hypothesize that the certificate has 2 pieces of information listed as "pending": 1. is the section where yes/no questions are present regarding autopsy information and the MOD (manner of death) as "pending investigation" rather than one of the 5 standard classifications.
Also, the cause of death CAN be modified as more information is received throughout the investigative process.

:94


The cynic in me says that the reason this has gone on for so long is that the COD intentionally will not be able to be determined. She had that breathing tube down her throat originally and that is the area of the three surgeries. As she is slowly decomposing, the information that would have been readily available back then, during the autopsy, when they were following protocol.

There should be plenty of notes and x-rays, etc. plus witness statements as a backup, not to mention that the grandmother was suctioning Jahi and probably loosened or removed the clotting factor. She admitted as such and it was confirmed by her mother. After suctioning the bleeding got so bad they couldn't keep up. And you will never get me to believe that a children's hospital wasn't doing everything they could to save her. My cousin, Laurie, was still going to the one in Houston

Frankly, if the CHO settles with them and with non-disclosure agreements, I will be severely PO'd. Especially since the family is the one that got the ball rolling on her demise.

We all know that CHO will not issue a statement as to COD and I am willing to bet that the family will blame the time without "food" as the cause.



:moo :moo


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:25 am 
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I wish I could get my fingers to type what my brain is saying! I didn't really pay attention to details in the beginning and when is the beginning? I am thinking that is when the family took it to the media. Was it really religious belief or is it money? My heart tries to say grief, but then the skeptic in me takes over and says, nah, it's money. Probably both. Thanks to the posters who have posted links here!
When Jahi was pronounced brain dead on Thursday 12-12-13, CHO sat the family down and discussed the situation. NW asked if they could keep her on vent until Monday, 12-16-13, do the family could gather and say good-bye. CHO gave them numerous resources during that time for quite a few family members. Then when Monday rolled around, NW wanted to wait for Christmas. So there are numerous family members in and out of Jahi's room, they had a private room, they had housing and meals at Family House, grief counselors, etc. When a week rolled around 12-19-13, CHO figured that was enough time and really started to push the family. I believe at that time the family started talking to attorneys (not Dolan) and realized no attorney wanted to take the case, especially with the $250,000.00 cap on death. The exception of course would be if Jahi was NOT dead. And since she was still "warm" she was still alive and therefore enititled to more monies.

And, of course, if anyone doesn't agree that "resurrection" will occur, as OS said in tweet, they are accused of being "haters". Such a strong term used also my JA.

Anyways MOO MOO!

The media, didn't help either, comparing brain death to coma and PVS.

I am also still having trouble with the coroner allowing the family to take Jahi.

Thank you for letting me ramble on!


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:18 pm 
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BertaBlue I agree, my heart and brain telling me the same. I didn't hear about his for awhile, I guess after right after Christmas is when I read about it. I found an article written by the family attorney where he wrote which I will post link to 2 he wrote.

According to this article by family Lawyer Chris Dolan, it was on Dec 16th abt 10 pm when he was contacted. So that was 4 days after Jahi was declared brain dead.

I skimmed thru the Uncles tweets and Chris Dolan. On the 10th Uncle starts asking for prayer, and it appears that on the 11th was a day when they began to be told that she was brain dead and not breathing on her own, it wasn't until the 12 that the 2 drs declared her brain dead. No tweets on the 12th at all. Per Uncles tweets, it isn't until afternoon of the 13th that it appears evident TO ME that the hospital was wanting her taken off of life support. On the 14th Uncle thanks people for prayer and to those who have reached out..this was early afternoon. By 10pm ish Uncle tweets he has reached out to the media. Approx 48 hrs later according to Dolan, he was contacted about the case. It was in the news for approx. that time inbetween.

Uncle Omari twitter
https://twitter.com/_iamOMARI

Chris Dolan First tweet re Jahi McMath https://twitter.com/cbdlaw

Here is an article I found dated Dec 14, 2013 the oldest I was able to find
http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/local/gir ... ort/ncLY5/


Christopher Dolan stating how he came to become family rep
articles written by the attorney rep the family of Jahi McMath
http://www.sfexaminer.com/sanfrancisco/ ... id=2658052
on Thursday


Second article from Christopher Dolan: behind the scenes: http://www.sfexaminer.com/…/behind-the…/Content…


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:24 pm 
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Debfmhell, I think the Grandma has a lot to do with this too. And I totally agree with your post. Only way we are going to know anything tho is from documents posted in court, because of HIPAA, the hospital is really restricted in what they can say otherwise unless the family gives them release to say so, and they darn sure aren't. I dare to say this, but I don't see this mess ending anytime soon, as it should have long ago.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:29 pm 
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Mimi - So Dolan came into after the "good-bye" week, right? After the family requested a week to gather, etc? Still makes me wonder if they liked that "special" treatment they were getting. I don't mean to sound callous but it just sounds so morbid to me, IMO!


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:48 pm 
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I wonder if it could be proven that the child's cause of death was because of something one of the family members did could that family member be charged for something even if it was just an accident .( cover up) Maybe that's the real reason they don't wont a cause of death and would the hospital still have to pay the family if they caused the child's death .


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:53 pm 
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BertaBlue wrote:
Mimi - So Dolan came into after the "good-bye" week, right? After the family requested a week to gather, etc? Still makes me wonder if they liked that "special" treatment they were getting. I don't mean to sound callous but it just sounds so morbid to me, IMO!

I agree, it does to me too. I wonder about the 2 younger brothers that are in the home. Its hard enough as adults. I pray these children are having their lives kept as near as normal as possible. It really did disturb me tho when the school children story came out. I had wondered about the classmates. :doh


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:00 pm 
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Hey MIMI ! :28


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:41 pm 
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FWIW..... (Note Bryne is co-author).....


Jahi Mcmath's functioning hypothalamus: some social and scientific considerations
By S. N. Sansalone, with edits by Paul A. Byrne, M.D
January 18, 2014

Whatever may be our impressions or biases about the Jahi Mcmath "brain-death" matter, we ought to consider certain responsibilities that come with exploring or taking a side in any such controversy of potential importance to society.
[...]

We also need to duly consider whatever truths and good ideas we come upon. Never should any important fact be dismissed or buried, particularly such facts as those offering a "short-cut," overarching interpretation to a matter. Therein is a key and vital component of the Jahi Mcmath debate, a key fact that, strangely, has been almost totally ignored in the broader public dialogue about this young girl in hospital. I am referring to the restored ability of Jahi's body to self-regulate her core body temperature.

This is deeply significant, because the human body relies upon the hypothalamus portion of the brain to conduct the temperature-regulating function. More to the point, Jahi's brain was still functioning to a notable degree, at least during part of the material time of the famous/infamous "brain death" declaration. And her brain would continue to function for at least as long as she is still able to self-regulate her own body temperature. To wit, Jahi's brain, then, obviously did not fulfill "irreversible cessation of all functions of the entire brain," the wording of the Uniform Determination of Death Act (UDDA).

While it is true that Jahi was not self-regulating her body temperature for most of December, a sign of lost hypothalamic function, there is also the later, additional fact in that regard... the fact that keeps getting publicly ignored. Direct observers, including at least one doctor, had noted in early January that Jahi had actually regained her ability to self-regulate core body temperature. This empirical "data point" is rendered increasingly significant in its dynamic of sudden reappearance. In other words, that function of the brain had actually restored itself to working order, and did so weeks after that particular brain function had earlier supposedly stopped. That is remarkable. Such a dynamic, or trend, of "restored" brain function extraordinarily, scientifically, is not consistent with "irreversible cessation of all functions of the entire brain," but rather suggests a degree of recovery from brain injury. And that recovery is in spite of some extremely poor care this young girl was being given at the first hospital facility, where they insisted and persisted in withholding needed interventions before and even after there were such signs of restored brain activity. The "poor care" I am referring to here is the prolonged starvation; the protracted and unnecessarily repeated apnea testing conducted in a potentially deleterious manner; the deprivation of needed thyroid medication; refusing to treat an adrenal gland problem that arose; et cetera.

...more at link
http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/byrne/140118

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:48 pm 
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IANAMD.... but this appears to be "wishful thinking" at best... deception perhaps.

The only documented reference to body temperature was in court documents stating that external heating and blankets were being used to maintain body temperature. To claim there is evidence of the hypothalamus still functioning is a stretch.... To claim any small blip (if real and replicable) is a counter to several comprehensive diagnoses of loss of all brain and brain stem activity (Brain Death) is unscientific and unreasonable.

Quoting joypath at WS...
Quote:
AND I take GREAT issue with this gem: " This empirical "data point" is rendered increasingly significant in its dynamic of sudden reappearance"

NO SCIENTIST bases JUDGEMENT on "one data point".....PLUS if HE were the one claiming her temp. rise & TOOK IT....he broke state law practicing medicine without a license!!!

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:53 pm 
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Rumpole wrote:
FWIW..... (Note Bryne is co-author).....


Jahi Mcmath's functioning hypothalamus: some social and scientific considerations
By S. N. Sansalone, with edits by Paul A. Byrne, M.D
January 18, 2014

...more at link
http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/byrne/140118

Edits by Paul Byrne....lol. That about says it don't it? :22

He has jumped onto this bandwagon with both feet. Sick puppies all. Jmo

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 12:48 am 
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Sha wrote:
Hey MIMI ! :28

:98 Hello back at ya Sha!!! :28 :84


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:23 am 
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Read this article:

In Jahi’s case, past time for a reality check
Op-Ed Jan 16, 2014

The truth is she’s been dead for more than a month now, and the time for subtlety is over. The situation, to put it bluntly, is a disgrace.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/commenta ... z2qp6JnMGp


THEN GO TO NETTLES AND READ THE TWEETS I COPIED FROM UNCLE OMARI TWITTER. HE MADE PRIVATE NOW.
http://annettekblog.wordpress.com/2014/ ... n-18-2014/

edit Rumpole
Fixed non-working link


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:29 am 
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FROM STORY this is why he was talking about $

Quote:
This is all, of course, done in the guise of balance, and to generate the kind of page views I’ll call “rage views.” But this is no longer a story that requires balance. A teenager, tragically, has died. Her family deserves sensitivity and compassion, but do they deserve authority over doctors and the coroner in declaring someone dead? Do they get to do whatever they want with a body? Do they get to put their younger children through this? Do they deserve to collect nearly $60,000 in GoFundMe contributions they’ve solicited under the pretense that six separate doctors have made a wrong diagnosis and a resurrection will happen?


http://www.latimes.com/opinion/commenta ... z2qp6JnMGp

edit Rmpole
To fix link
Mimi... the links you are posting are not working?
Rather than copy paste from somewhere, open link and use the url from your browser


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:31 am 
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iamOMARI Protected Tweets Jan 17
Since everyone is so interested, the charitable funds were used for the cost of moving Jahi out of the hospital to her new location


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:40 am 
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Another snip

For whatever reasons — coercion, denial, distrust, greed, grief — Jahi's family got the idea that they were somehow different. As harmful as that is to their healing process, it's also harmful to society's well-being, a harm that too many, whatever their intentions, have perpetuated.

The hospital, even before the court order, gave the family many more days to say goodbye than most loved ones get in such circumstances. The judge, seemingly against all logic, gave the family a power, and a burden, that no family should have to wield or shoulder. The media (including me) gave them attention that, like the donations, would have been better spent elsewhere


http://www.latimes.com/opinion/commenta ... z2qp94Btum


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:48 am 
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Rumpole, sorry. What I think was messing it up was trying to post the tweet with those. I was able to but had to take out the @ and name. His acct is private or I would have posted the tweet like you showed me long time ago. Again sorry. :34


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:59 am 
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Ok Mimi..... but next time..........

Spoiler:
  :fish        :slap

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