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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 5:30 pm 
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They are ALL taking to the airwaves… Now Wray!!

Wray seems to have ZERO self awareness of his own (and departments) role in things… he’s gonna do more “awareness training”??

FBI Director Christopher Wray Releases Pathetic Letter Following Highly Critical FISA Report…

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Quote:
[...]
Fifth, I am mandating a specialized, semiannual training requirement for FBI personnel at all levels who handle FISA and CHS matters. This training will be experience-based, and it will cover specific lessons learned from this Report, along with other new and revised material. Earlier in my tenure as Director, I reinstated an annual ethics training program for all FBI employees, because I learned the training had been discontinued in prior years. While that training was not introduced in response to this Report, all current FBI employees involved in the 2016-2017 events reviewed by the OIG have since completed this additional training in ethics and professional responsibility.

Finally, we will review the performance and conduct of certain FBI employees who were referenced in the Report’s recommendations — including managers, supervisors, and senior officials at the time. The FBI will take appropriate disciplinary action where warranted. Notably, many of the employees described in the report are no longer employed at the FBI.


https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press ... ral-report

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:30 pm 
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I see the ongoing demands for Trump to "Unclassified everything"
(and release it to the public)

It is natural for us "public" to want to SEE all the documents and evidence.. to "get to the bottom of things" for ourselves, but.....
There are MANY legitimate reasons to keep some information secret. That is why there are security "classifications" on documents. It might not be sensible to throw all that out.
Also... documents that form evidence of a crime are usually NOT made public ahead of "Discovery" requirements for evidence in a trial. Even before an indictment... documents are usually kept secret and used to confront witnesses (including target suspects). I wonder if people realize that if documents ARE made public then they have less value (zero) as evidence in ongoing Criminal Investigations, and any ensuing criminal trials.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:52 pm 
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Even Linda has weighed in...

Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC) on Justice Department IG Report
Dec 9, 2019
C-SPAN




FULL video here....
https://www.c-span.org/video/?467247-1/ ... t-end-okay

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:26 pm 
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H/T poster at CTH for compiling a LIST of some of the criminals.

I'll copy it here foe REFERENCE.

As I have explained....I dont think any of them will ever face justice... but the fact that it's not hard to create a long list illustrates what I have been saying. There are simply TOO MANY people to indict (without causing a riot/war)

(I'd add Obama and many others)

Quote:
Buzzsaw
Since justice may not be served, here’s a list of the criminal traitors who deserve bad luck.

Spoiler:
MICHAEL HOROWITZ
CHRISTOPHER WRAY
JOHN “DeLay” HUBER
ROBERT MUELLER
JOHN BRENNAN
JAMES CLAPPER
JAMES BAKER
ANDREW WEISSMANN (Mueller team)
ROD ROSENSTEIN
LORETTA LYNCH
BRUCE OHR
NELLIE OHR
GLENN SIMPSON
DANA BOENTE
VICTORIA NULAND
PETE STRZOK
LISA PAGE
JAMES COMEY (wrongfully exonerated by Horowitz and the DOJ multiple times)
ANDREW MCCABE (wrongfully exonerated by Horowitz and the DOJ multiple times)
GREGORY BAKER
TERRENCE DUDLEY
JOHN CARLIN
ZAINAB AHMAD (Mueller team)
GREG ANDRES (Mueller team)
ANDREW GOLDSTEIN (Mueller team)
MICHAEL DREEBEN (Mueller team)
LAWRENCE ATKINSON (Mueller team)
ADAM JED (Mueller team)
SCOTT MEISLER (Mueller team)
ELIZABETH PRELOGAR (Mueller team)
JAMES QUARLES (Mueller team)
JEANNIE RHEE (Mueller team)
BRANDON VAN GRACK (Mueller team)
AARON ZEBLEY (Mueller team)
AARON ZOLENSKY (Mueller team)
ERIC CIARAMELLA
SEAN MOSKO
ALEXANDER VINDMAN
MARIE YOVANOVITCH
DANIEL GOLDMAN
BARRY BERKE
MICHAEL ISIKOFF
DAVID CORN
WILLIAM TAYLOR
GEORGE KENT
JOHN KERRY
MAX BAUCUS
ERIC HOLDER
LOIS LERNER
JAMES WOLFE
ALI WATKINS
PAUL RYAN
KEVIN CLINESMITH
ALEXANDRA CHALUPA
JOHN MCCAIN
VALERIE JARRETT
HILLARY CLINTON
SUSAN RICE
MARK WARNER
STEFAN HALPER
JONATHAN WINER
DAN JONES
MICHAEL GAETA
JOE PIENTKA

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:17 am 
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I Gotta leave old Durham - Roger Whittaker


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:31 am 
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IF Durham is "The Real Deal" As some people say (wish)....
And lot of followers believe them.

Then he needs to be looking at VERY SERIOUS CRIMES, involving serious prison terms, life, perhaps death penalty, and involving 100s (or more) prominent people.. all the way up to Obama.

I kinda think he is more likely to not indict the underlying crimes.. just some token minor crimes/process crimes.

IANAL...
I could not specify what charges are likely... but these crimes involve..
ESPIONAGE: on US citizens by their own Intelligence Agencies... with collusion with some foreign governments, and their Intelligence agencies. Obviously UK is involved, and they seem to have also dragged in Australia, and maybe some European nations.
LAYING FALSE CHARGES: Bearing false witness on US citizens... and the destruction of lives/ financial cost in the millions. There has got to be a crime in there somewhere?
SEDITION:
TREASON:
INTERFERING IN AN ELECTION: to reverse the outcome.
MORE ESPIONAGE: and Conspiracy to thwart the President Elect... and even a sitting President!
I don't KNOW exactly what crimes/conspiracy to commit crimes are involved... but I think it is reasonable to assume that they are serious crimes warranting long terms in Prison, even Life.. and maybe even the death penalty.

And... not only are the CRIMES serious... but they involve a VAST number of people conspiring and enacting the Crimes. 100s of people... 1000s... maybe more. Obama himself and all thought his administration, Government Departments and agencies, The Diplomatic Corps, The Intelligence agencies, maybe even some of the military etc

As much as I would like to see "Justice" dished out.... I think that IF Durham indicted all those involved for all the crimes involved there would be Chaos in Washington (and across the Nation), and I do NOT think Durham could indict just a few people (for the real crimes)... I think indicting even one would drag in them all. So... IMO... Durham will NOT indict anybody for the real crimes involved. He MAY indict a few token minor crimes/process crimes.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:58 pm 
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The "European" take on Horowitz OIG Report..

Horowitz delivers devastating report. Sets the table for Barr & Durham
Dec 10, 2019
The Duran



IF the REAL CRIMES are pursued... it will involve espionage (maybe Treason, sedition, a COUP etc to remove a legitimate POTUS and insert a false one) by State agencies against US citizens.. a POTUS Candidate, a President elect, and even a sitting President. These crimes may well involve LIFE in prison, death penalty etc... and likely involve SENIOR Political, Government, Intelligence, Diplomats (even some Military)... all the way up to Obama. If you indict one... you would implicate MANY... 100s maybe 1000s of senior people. The establishment WILL NOT let that happen. Indictments will be for minor crimes/process crimes .. if there are any Indictments at all.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:14 pm 
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Full Interview: Barr Criticizes Inspector General Report On The Russia Investigation | NBC News
Dec 10, 2019
NBC News




I am a LITTLE more convinced that "Barr Gets it"... and so have a little more hope that Durham will find some crimes and crooks..
I still WORRY that this thing is so HUGE that there will be reluctance to arrest all the Senior Swamp Creatures... I guess I am prepared to HOPE at least that Durham will "do the business"

I WONT hold my breath of course.... I believe the "Durham Report" is already said to be months away :doh

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:15 pm 
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I see that Sundance remains Skeptical of Barr (and Durham)...

It could all be another "tick-tock" con that drags out for months with a "Report" subject to delays, that is a blow-out when it arrives.
We have been REPEATEDLY promised that the NEXT review/investigation will be the real Deal, but as I have said I would have expected SOME action back in 2017, if these investigations were real.

I was of the same mind.. as recently as a few hours ago.... but...

Hope Springs eternal.. I am prepared to be "conned yet again"... and have some HOPE that Indictments will follow the Durham Criminal Investigations.

However... I wont hold my breath.

Barr, doing Media round yesterday, seemed to be saying that he (and Durham) will be turning over the correct rocks to take a look..... but I still think they may well carefully turn the rock back over (with no indictments) when they find Obama, Hillary, Loretta Lynch, Valerie Jarret, etc Even perhaps when they find Brennan and Comey and Clapper etc.

Bill Barr talks at the WSJ CEO Council
Dec 10, 2019
Michael Sheridan


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:33 pm 
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Tom Fitton: Facts Evidenced in #SpyGate IG Report Shows MASSIVE Criminal Conspiracy Targeting Trump!
Dec 10, 2019
Judicial Watch




Tom Fitton sees NO EVIDENCE of Durham doing much "Criminal Investigation"...


Tom Fitton talking about the (alleged) Durham Criminal Investigation:
    Ya know, I just don't see a..... when you look at the Mueller operation, the Special Counsel operation.. however abusive that was... ya kind of see what a real, serious, criminal investigation looks like. Ya got Grand... Grand Juries, witnesses and lawyers yelling and screaming. There is NO EVIDENCE that is taking place here. Maybe it's taking place all in secret... but... ya know..

Tom Fitton (Judicial Watch) does NOT see any indicators that Durham is pursuing a Criminal Investigation. I take back what I said about falling for this latest "promise" of Indictments to happen.

So I am BACK to being SKEPTICAL that the "Durham Report" will be the "BIG UGLY"

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:33 pm 
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Mifsud’s role in Mueller probe under investigation
Oct 26, 2019
RT


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:52 pm 
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I agree with you about them "turning the rock back over" when it comes to the higher ups.

I think Durham will charge the grunts for ignoring exculpatory evidence resulting in the granting of the FISA's - which should never have been granted.
They will probably only get a shake of the finger and a slap on the wrist, though.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:18 pm 
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Horowitz grilled by Senate (Linda's Judicial Committee)

I have TRIED watching a couple of times... but had to stop.
Maybe I was unlucky... but all I caught was questioners who are "begging the question"... as in giving their own spin ending with a leading question like "Don't you agree". They are NOT actually seeking to question the witness and get information from his answers. They already KNOW what that want (imagine) the answer to be. All the spying on Trump campaign, and his Presidency was GOOD... because "Orange man bad". Forgery, corruption and lies are just everyday tools of the FBI trade in cases like this.... FBI out to GET a bad man... find a crime somewhere rather than "investigate" a crime that there is evidence of a-priori.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:19 pm 
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I think many people still have too high expectations for an OIG review and report.

The OIG does INTERNAL review of a Departments "processes". It is more like an "In-house audit".Not a comprehensive investigation at all. In fact I think this OIG stuff is all a CON JOB. It should NOT take as long as it has to review what it has reviewed..... 3 YEARS!!! And the expectations, and delay after delay was all a con to to keep the masses drooling. Chris Farrell (Judicial Watch) alerted people that OIG was limited (at best) in 2017. OIG is not tasked to even LOOK for crimes explicitly.. let alone find any. Since it is limited to just the department "side of things" it has no way to even compare what staff are reporting, with what people outside the department (in this case DoJ) might say to refute that.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:25 pm 
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Tom Fitton talking about the (alleged) Durham Criminal Investigation:
(Tom thinks that there is not much, if anything happening with Durham)

    Ya know, I just don't see a..... when you look at the Mueller operation, the Special Counsel operation.. however abusive that was... ya kind of see what a real, serious, criminal investigation looks like. Ya got Grand... Grand Juries, witnesses and lawyers yelling and screaming. There is NO EVIDENCE that is taking place here. Maybe it's taking place all in secret... but... ya know..

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:51 pm 
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Great turn of phrase by Sundance....

Senate Judiciary Chairman Lindsey Graham appears on Fox News with Sean Hannity to receive attaboys for his efforts and discuss his views on IG Horowitz testimony.

Attaboys from Hannity .....(whose Mom was a prison Guard)

(BTW: John Kasich's Dad was a mailman)


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:09 pm 
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Senator Kennedy asks President Trump to Declassify FISA Application…

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WASHINGTON – Sen. John Kennedy (R-La.) is calling on President Trump to declassify the record of the FBI’s use of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) to surveil former campaign adviser Carter Page after the Justice Department’s inspector general found errors in the applications.

“The Inspector General report showed the FBI was willing to do anything in order to spy on Carter Page, including making 17 significant inaccuracies and omissions. The American public deserves to know everything the FBI did,” Kennedy said in a statement Friday.

“I’m asking President Trump to declassify the entire record so that Attorney General Barr and FBI Director Wray can release it to the American people. If the FBI wants to continue the employment of rogue, politically-motivated agents, then let the public read the entire record.”

...more at link
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/474 ... to-surveil

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:21 pm 
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Sundance (and his followers)...

have long been some of those calling for documents to be declassified and made public....

Today, Senator John Kennedy (R-LA), again asks President Trump to declassify the FISA application. This is the fifth request from congress...
[...]
There is no investigative value in hiding the FISA application from public review. This willful effort to conceal damaging material to the DOJ and FBI is similar to the reason why the DOJ refuses to provide the origination material, scope memos, for the special counsel.

It has been 200 days since President Trump empowered AG Bill Barr to release the original authorizing framework of the Mueller investigation which began on May 17, 2017.


I DISAGREE THAT....
"There is no investigative value in hiding the FISA application from public review"

IF the documents are only being withheld as CYA for DoJ and FBI.. then I would agree... the documents should be made public, but....
The OIG indicates "17 significant inaccuracies" in the FISA application(s) and I assume at least some of thise COULD be evidence of DELIBERATE (criminal) actions? Maybe they are not going to be pursued as part of a criminal indictment... in which case.. they can be released.... but I also assume people clamoring to see this "evidence" are NOT just out for "cheep thrills".... they also want people held accountable, in which case the documents will (could) form part of evidence presented at a trial.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:49 pm 
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Rumpole, I agree with your view of declassification. I find it interesting that as soon as Rudy returned from Ukraine old mumbles mcconnel is at least saying some words in President's favor. I realize it is just lip service, but it does seem as if he blinked. Wonder what documents Rudy has.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 3:15 pm 
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I have been trying to make the point (since 2106) that the INDICTMENTS needed to start early. I was “placated” by online Gurus that claimed that there was a need to be patient (grasshopper)not rush to indict obvious crooks now, but delay and in effect, round ALL the main players up. But… I was LIED TO I now think. I do not think there were any serious CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS being done behind the scenes.. by Comey himself in 2016.. then Sessions and various people (who mostly turned out to be involved themselves and certainly not investigating other players). The 3 and a half year delay has been used to hide (maybe destroy) evidence if anything. The Muller hoax was imposed to further distract from the REAL crimes. EVEN NOW.. I think Chris Wray is carrying on where Comey left off…
Barr (and Durham) may finally be looking in some of the right places…. I am NOT sure they are investigating the SERIOUS crimes of espionage, treason, sedition etc and I am far from convinced that they will INDICT.. when they see top names (including Obama) implicated.

Comey should have been ARRESTED as well as fired. He admitted to spying on Trump and leaking Classified documents.. lock the bum up!! See who else he names. There should have NOT been a Special Council… unfortunately we now know in hindsight that Trump was getting some BAD advice early on. He was NOT in a position to counter it all. He did NOT have 10,000’s of Washington staff of his own.. and even the “Republicans” were against Trump (mostly)


It is disappointing to see/hear so many people who work in government are promoting a personal (ideological) position. They have no loyalty to the President, certainly.. and apparently do not even value basics like "rule of law". It is NOT just a few bad guys at the head of departments and agencies... there is rot from top to bottom. You do have bad guys like Comey, Brennan, Clapper as leaders.. but then you also have senior staff below them.. and agents and lawyers all the way down.

-------------------
By the end of 2017 I already thought that the various "investigations" were not even being done, let alone going anywhere. The twittershhere was promising plans, and secret investigations and 10s of thousands of "sealed indictments" and Huber out in Utah with prison places at the ready (not to mention planned hangings). It all sounded like nonsense to me back then, and that has been confirmed by the lack of any indictments and in fact "investigations" which turned out to be "reviews" (if anything) with recommendations for "more reviews" and perhaps some in-house staff training.
By early 2018 I gave up. It seemed the underlying crimes were very serious, but the crooks involved were "too high up" and too many. Indictments would spark a "civil war"
But... just when I though I was out... they pull me back in!!
EXPECTATIONS have again been "whetted" with talk of Barr and his boy Durham doing Criminal Investigations.
After the past 3 years.... I am reluctant to let myself get sucked in again!! Especially since its the same old "game play"... we have to wait MANY MONTHS before finding out anything from Durham!

YEAH! RIGHT!!! :roll

-----------------------------
The Crimes we know of already represent a widespread CONSPIRACY to plot and actually carry out, VERY serious crimes. Capital crimes perhaps, certainly life sentence type crimes. It involves Obama, Hillary and many people in the Obama administration… The WH, DoJ, FBI, CIA, State Dept..etc.. many more agencies. The Diplomatic Corps, the Military, etc… overseas spies, agencies, Governments…
IF Durham were doing a PROPER CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION he would need a HUGE staff and a LOT of office space. People who might get wind of that have not seen it happening.

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