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| POLL: State "Theory of the Case" http://randomtopics.org/viewtopic.php?f=150&t=979 |
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| Author: | Rumpole [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | POLL: State "Theory of the Case" |
I threw this poll together in a hurry... based on Chip's suggestion. We don't have long to decide (State close this afternoon) But can modify poll choices, if anybody has suggestions. Chip Bennett wrote: Rumpole: poll idea - what "theory of the case" will the State present in their closing argument? They didn't present a theory in the probable cause affidavit, in their opening statement, or in their case presentation. What theory (of many) will they use, finally, in their closing argument? Chip Bennett wrote: That's a good question, isn't it? Since the State hasn't actually articulated anything?
1) Zimmerman and Martin were standing; Zimmerman grabbed Martin's shirt to keep him from getting away. After Martin screamed for 40 seconds, Zimmerman shot him. 2) Zimmerman was on top of Martin. After Martin screamed for 40 seconds, Zimmerman shot him. 3) Martin was on top of Zimmerman, beating the crap out of him. After Zimmerman screamed for 40 seconds, Martin relented; but as he was leaning back to end the assault, Zimmerman grabbed his shirt, pulled him back toward himself, and shot him. Variations of the above three, with: a) Zimmerman started the physical altercation, by menacing Martin. Martin was "standing his ground" b) Martin started the physical altercation, but made an attempt to cease aggression before Zimmerman escalated to deadly force |
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| Author: | SheStone [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: POLL: State "Theory of the Case" |
I think they will claim that at different points in the altercation each one had been on top or bottom but that basically it is all GZ's fault because he started it and then shot TM when he came to the conclusion he was losing the fight. I will add that I think they will offer both choices of TM either being on top and trying to pull away once the gun was drawn, or that it is also possible that GZ was on top and grabbed TM's shirt. Based on what was reported by witnesses I don't think they can claim at the time of the shot that they were standing as not one witness I can think of claimed to have seen that. |
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| Author: | Rumpole [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: POLL: State "Theory of the Case" |
At this stage... I think the State have to concede that TM was on top? All they can try is TM relenting (screaming), and GZ shooting anyway. They can also try and cloud the juror's minds with the "Zim should have stayed in his truck" Traybotism, and ask for manslaughter on that basis. That is not the law, but perhaps the Jury can be imprinted with the notion that some sort of compensation verdict is desirable? |
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| Author: | chipbennett [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: POLL: State "Theory of the Case" |
Yep, I went with Option #3, with a dash of "Martin relented, but Zimmerman escalated" |
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| Author: | SheStone [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: POLL: State "Theory of the Case" |
Rumpole wrote: At this stage... I think the State have to concede that TM was on top? All they can try is TM relenting (screaming), and GZ shooting anyway. They can also try and cloud the juror's minds with the "Zim should have stayed in his truck" Traybotism, and ask for manslaughter on that basis. That is not the law, but perhaps the Jury can be imprinted with the notion that some sort of compensation verdict is desirable? I basically agree with you but remember they also try to go with the hysterical drama queen witness who says GZ was on top at the time of the shot so they may try to give both possibilities. Mind you they will try to overlook that she said TM was face down (which actually shows it is impossible and was likely after the shot). |
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| Author: | auscitizenmom [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: POLL: State "Theory of the Case" |
Rumpole wrote: Since the State hasn't actually articulated anything? The only things the prosecution has proven are: George made a NEN call, swore, and got out of the car..They tried to disprove, but failed, that George got beat up and that Trayvon was on top of him. I think they finally conceded that last point. 
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| Author: | Rumpole [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: POLL: State "Theory of the Case" |
I added an option... and prior votes vanished... who knew that would happen  So... those who voted get to vote again 
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| Author: | chipbennett [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: POLL: State "Theory of the Case" |
Rumpole wrote: I added an option... and prior votes vanished... who knew that would happen So... those who voted get to vote again I stuck with Option #3. Option #4 ("he didn't have to get out of the truck") is only applicable if the State had charged him with culpable negligence. |
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| Author: | Rumpole [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: POLL: State "Theory of the Case" |
Yes. I stuck with #3 But I felt the "he shoulda stayed in his truck" chant has been so persistent it deserved a place
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| Author: | SheStone [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: POLL: State "Theory of the Case" |
That's part of why I went with option 4. That and I think they will not tie themselves to just one option. |
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| Author: | kbp [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: POLL: State "Theory of the Case" |
chipbennett wrote: Yep, I went with Option #3, with a dash of "Martin relented, but Zimmerman escalated"  and to better define de-escalation... the state would like to introduce.... |
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| Author: | 70scarrestoguy [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: POLL: State "Theory of the Case" |
I voted option #4 because it's apparent that the State had abandoned their (killed for walking while Black) theory & their (Trayvon was the individual yelling for help) theory. From my perspective the State has reverted to throwing everything at the wall in hope that something sticks. I'd caution BDLR that O'Mara/West were witnessed chuckling in the courtroom after hours, the wall behind the juror box glistened exceptionally & West had an empty can of Teflon based cooking spray in his possession. The State's crap isn't sticking round here! |
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| Author: | Rumpole [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: POLL: State "Theory of the Case" |
The "Jury" is still out... I have NO IDEA what the Prosecution theory is... Still |
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| Author: | LondoJowo [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: POLL: State "Theory of the Case" |
The truck boss, the truck!!!!! 
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| Author: | chipbennett [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: POLL: State "Theory of the Case" |
So, even after the State concluded its closing argument, I still can't articulate what their theory is. |
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| Author: | liesel [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: POLL: State "Theory of the Case" |
Looks like RT peeps were right again - no theory! |
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| Author: | Rumpole [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: POLL: State "Theory of the Case" |
chipbennett wrote: So, even after the State concluded its closing argument, I still can't articulate what their theory is. Just as well I added the last option  It's about as close as I could get even now after Bernie has finished..... Maybe it will all come clear in a flash when Guy does the business with his Cabbage Patch Playmate tomorrow? 
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