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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:46 pm 
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chipbennett wrote:
Mantei is trying to discredit Nakasone? For real?

He's explaining that the range of disagreement makes voodoo acceptable.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:48 pm 
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If there is any sort of disagreement between fingerprint experts on what constitutes a match, then that means it's legitimate for me to get up there and say I can identify someone from a Xerox of their toenail.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:49 pm 
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If this crap is allowed in it will take a week or more to present and rebut for jury.... it would be yet another travesty.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:53 pm 
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Mantei basically argued that anyone can testify as an expert witness with respect to technical analysis and conclusions, regardless of personal knowledge or understanding of the methodologies and algorithms used to conduct that analysis or to reach those conclusions. I could ask my six-year-old daughter to interpret an IR or NMR spectrograph, and Mantei would argue that her interpretation would be admissible as expertise, because IR and NMR are accepted methodologies.

I can only assume that Mantei's closing argument is fundamentally opposite of both Frye and Daubert.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:55 pm 
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West making a great argument that Owen and Reich testifying as to their own expertise is tautological, and that the State offered no independent experts to vouch for either Owen or Reich.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:55 pm 
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So will Nelson just interrupt West by 5:00 and read her already written opinion? Or are we going to get some actual judicial work and have an opinion later?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:55 pm 
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I think Weasel Boy should be ruled Inadmissible

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:59 pm 
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West: Reich's report should start "It was a dark and stormy night"

Haha, love it


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:59 pm 
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4:56 p.m.
West says the defense has been scrambling. He couldn’t afford the deposition of Owen.

“We learned of Alan Reich at the last possible moment under the courts discovery order,” West says.

He says the defense got his report on May 10 and tried to schedule a deposition, but couldn’t until May 24th or 25th.

West says they still don’t know his method or conclusions.

West says he is explaining to the court the challenges the defense has had.

West says they had Dr. Holeen’s (spelling?) report.

Judge Nelson says that report wasn’t used and won’t be considered.

West says Dr. Nakasone runs the FBI lab. He has testified, but they don’t now because there isn’t an accepted methodology that is reliable enough for forensic analysis.

West says they shifted to an automated speaker recognition system, but confidence in its reliability is at least two years away.

West says Wayman and Doddington are distinguished experts in the community.

West says Doddington’s work with the NSA and with NIST funds evaluation of those procedures.

West say they know the "few bits and pieces of somebody screaming" is unsuitable for analysis.

4:48 p.m.
Mantei shows a slide of a specific evidence code

Mantei cites the Sercey case in saying Florida favors letting the jury sort out contested matters.

Mantei says Mr. Owen has been accepted as an expert by other courts.

Mantei says Owen did not use voice print. He says he has analyzed screams before.

Mantei says he did not attempt to actually identify the voice. Mantei says Dr. Reich was also hired by a newspaper and used methods that were not new or novel.

“The fact that the screaming stops right after the gun shot,” Mantei says Reich concluded that shouts were not Zimmerman.

Mantei mentions that Dr. Nakasone differs his opinion but has no quarrel with the methodology.

Mantei says what’s new here is a working group trying critique methodologies.

Mantei points out Dr. French has never testified in a U.S. court before.

Mantei points out Dr. Doddington testified more than 30 years ago at a hearing in Minnesota.

Mantei says it’s important that Doddington said different scientific communities can disagree.

Mantei says Dr. Wayman has never done forensic case work. He didn’t know Reich’s method or Owen’s software.

Mantei says Wayman was inconsistent with other defense witnesses and complained of lack of detail in reports, but never wrote his own.

Mantei cites case law he has applied to his argument.

Mantei closes by saying the jury should hear it and be able to decide what is and is not the best evidence.

West offers his closing argument.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:01 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:03 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:07 pm 
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Rumpole wrote:
I think Weasel Boy should be ruled Inadmissible
(pic snipped)



In his defense, this is just his 9 to 5, if Nelson can get him off the clock by 5.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:20 pm 
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5:13 p.m.
West says there is no methodology in existence in the world that can reliably test what is had in this case.

He calls it a “fool’s errand.”

West says the state’s experts don’t agree among themselves.

West says Reich says he hears Martin and Zimmerman having a conversation.

West says Dr. French is a forensic expert and has a lab in London.

West says French says it’s “ridiculous” and “absurd.”

West says French says Reich is “making it up.”

West says Nakasone was not allowed to review Reich’s and Owen’s methodology.

West says Nakasone’s lab did the work at the request of the state. Nakasone found 2.53 seconds of speech, but not all of it was words. He calls them screams from a life-threatening situation.

West says Dr. French took the next step and said you have to have a certain number of seconds.

Dr. French says when someone is in a life-threatening situation “all bets are off.”

West says he hopes the court would not hold against Dr. French that he has not testified in U.S. court before.

West says Doddington doesn’t testify because it is not what he does and he gave it up 30 years ago.

He says Owen has a financial interest in the case and went on television promoting his software in connection with the case.

West says the reason for confusion in the community with Reich’s approach is because “the best scientists in the world” can’t figure out what he did.

West says Reich talks about behavioral things and came up with conjecture and speculation.

“Curiously enough being hired by the state that it all seems to be against George Zimmerman,” West says.

West says no one asked Reich to assess the recording and got himself hired by a newspaper.

West says there has not been testimony that computer automated speaker analysis is accepted.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:27 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:28 pm 
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5:22 p.m.
West mentions the Ramirez case.

West says Doddington says it can’t be done yet.

West says an additional issue arises with application to the facts of the case and being generally accepted.

In this case, West says even if the methods are accepted, the application is not.

West says the courtroom is not a laboratory. HE says the course must look at the effect of the evidence on the jury and if the jury would be confused or misled.

West submits that this is the most important evidence in the case and mentions the knowledge some of the jurors had.

“This evidence must be excluded on 403 grounds. It’s not helpful to the jury. It’s going to confuse them,” West says.

West asks the court to exclude the confusing, misleading evidence.

Mantei offers a rebuttal.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:29 pm 
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Wow, no pre-written opinion, I'm surprised.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:30 pm 
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Nelson to "go home and review my notes"

I guess that means she has forgotten the ruling she decided before starting the Frye hearing

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:34 pm 
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I think she said she will have her opinion tomorrow.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:39 pm 
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MOM doing a presser in court

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:39 pm 
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Mark O'Mara offers statement

5:49 p.m.
O’Mara answers questions from the media.

He says Zimmerman is encouraged that jury selection is done.

In answer to a question, he says the case law is clear that a jury should not be impacted by bias. He says it was apparent to him that with four in a row, the state was striking white women. He says if they had good race neutral rulings they would be allowed.

In answer to a question, O’Mara says he was glad to be on the record for the strikes for two black jurors.

O’Mara says he is certain he will never be able to tell what they [the jury] are thinking.

O’Mara says the decision for the defendant to take the stand is a dynamic one to be made during trial.

O’Mara is asked about the people displeased about the race of the jury.

He says he would tell them to listening to the questioning. He says the state struck the first black juror. O’Mara says he had questions about two black jurors and the judge agreed they were race neutral decision.

“Tell me we did something wrong in the process and I’ll agree with you,” O’Mara adds.

He says they were not discussing the demographics of their heritage.

O’Mara is asked about the two jurors that had moved to Florida recently. He says they were “lucky or unlucky enough” to be called as jurors. He says he’s really looking for jurors that can be fair.

A reporter asks about Juror P-67. O’Mara says he challenged the state’s cause request because of his belief in the law.

O’Mara says he prefers to have jurors from Seminole County.

He wraps up at 5:49 p.m.

5:38 p.m.
O'Mara says the decision in the Frye hearing will affect the length of the trial.

5:31 p.m.
Defense attorney Mark O'Mark says he will make a statement after the Frye hearing.

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