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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:33 pm 
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I will admit to being naive here; but if there is no basis for the charging document, why hasn't her lawyer vehemently argued for dismissal or did I miss that court appearance and subsequent media exposure?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:23 pm 
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Longtime lurker here but this is my first post. I agree with Chip on everything he has stated, further the questioning used was very poor. Due to how the questions were worded it would not have been possible to answer correctly.
I am uncertain how anyone could ever be hit with perjury in this situation when accounts have this nasty tendency to gain interest. Think about it in this manner, you go to the bank and get a statement. Technically the actual amount of the account is gaining interest at is a variable rate dependent on what type of accounts ect... So from a very real standpoint a clear and concise answer would only be valid for a limited amount of time (usually one day).
I do not see how it would be possible to give an accurate answer to the questions presented to her. If she stated the last amount down to the cent that they possessed it still would have been an untrue answer due to the addition of interest from when the information was gained to the time of the statement.
As I see it the only honest way to handle this situation was to do exactly what she did. Inform them of where the current information can be located since any definitive statement she made would have potentially placed her in the situation of a misstatement that could be used as a perjury charge.
You have to love the catch 22 in this. (Sarcasm)


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:45 pm 
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Welcome to RT guywitharod :28

It's good idea to chose an avatar pic :)
I can help put it in place if you select any pic somewhere.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:07 pm 
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mooney1el wrote:
I will admit to being naive here; but if there is no basis for the charging document, why hasn't her lawyer vehemently argued for dismissal or did I miss that court appearance and subsequent media exposure?


I have this same question with regard to BOTH Zimmerman cases.

(Beautiful cat in your avatar, by the way. :cool )

Nothing to do with the GZ case, but I was frightened last night while laying in bed with the TV on when BDLR's mug popped up on the screen. He was yapping like an expert on one of the Discovery ID "FBI: Criminal Pursuit" shows about a murder of 3 people in the Jacksonville area.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:11 pm 
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How much weight will be given to the Jail phone call recordings/conversations between SZ and GZ? If I remember correctly, they had lengthy discussions regarding the funds with some attempted deception.

Did the incriminating evidence for the perjury charges come from those conversations to contradict her testimony on the stand? :40


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:01 pm 
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Was she under oath in any of the phone conversations?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:06 pm 
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Remote wrote:
How much weight will be given to the Jail phone call recordings/conversations between SZ and GZ? If I remember correctly, they had lengthy discussions regarding the funds with some attempted deception.

Did the incriminating evidence for the perjury charges come from those conversations to contradict her testimony on the stand? :40




Corey filed a single perjury count after Shellie Zimmerman testified at a bond hearing for her husband in April, saying under oath that the couple were broke. In reality, more than $130,000 had come flooding in in the previous 10 days from online contributors, according to prosecution records.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:18 pm 
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forensicpsy wrote:
Corey filed a single perjury count after Shellie Zimmerman testified at a bond hearing for her husband in April, saying under oath that the couple were broke. In reality, more than $130,000 had come flooding in in the previous 10 days from online contributors, according to prosecution records.


I quoted the transcript above. I don't believe it included the statement that the couple were "broke".

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:21 pm 
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From CBS News:

Records show that in the days before the bond hearing, Shellie Zimmerman transferred $74,000 in eight smaller amounts ranging from $7,500 to $9,990, from her husband's credit union account to hers, according to an arrest affidavit. It also shows that $47,000 was transferred from George Zimmerman's account to his sister's in the days before the bond hearing.

Four days after he was released on bond, Shellie Zimmerman transferred more than $85,500 from her account into her husband's account, the affidavit said. The affidavit also said jail call records show that George Zimmerman instructed her to "pay off all the bills," including an American Express and Sam's Club card.

A state attorney investigator met with credit union officials and learned she had control of transfers to and from her husband's account.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:28 pm 
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chipbennett wrote:

I quoted the transcript above. I don't believe it included the statement that the couple were "broke".


_______________________________________________________________________________________

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/broke

broke (brk)
v.
1. Past tense of break.

2. Nonstandard A past participle of break.

adj. Informal
1. Bankrupt.

2. Lacking funds: "Following the election, the Democrats were demoralized, discredited, and broke" (Thomas P. O'Neill, Jr.)


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:43 pm 
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http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/201 ... -zimmerman

"On the day Shellie Zimmerman testified that the couple was broke, she and her husband had access to $130,000, a defense financial expert testified Friday."


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:53 pm 
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chipbennett wrote:
I quoted the transcript above. I don't believe it included the statement that the couple were "broke".

forensicpsy wrote:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/broke
broke (brk)
v.
1. Past tense of break.
2. Nonstandard A past participle of break.
adj. Informal
1. Bankrupt.
2. Lacking funds: "Following the election, the Democrats were demoralized, discredited, and broke" (Thomas P. O'Neill, Jr.)


That's cute and all, but what specific statement did Shellie Zimmerman make at the bond hearing, that was untruthful, and that she believed to be untruthful?

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"That the attacker sustained a mortal wound is a matter that should have been considered by the deceased before he committed himself to the task he undertook." - 5th DCA, Stinson v. State (Fl)


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:06 pm 
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forensicpsy wrote:
Corey filed a single perjury count after Shellie Zimmerman testified at a bond hearing for her husband in April, saying under oath that the couple were broke. In reality, more than $130,000 had come flooding in in the previous 10 days from online contributors, according to prosecution records.


I tire of these claims that, for example, Shellie said "the couple were broke" without quoting the precise language. Nowhere in her testimony did she say the Zimmerman's were "broke." Whether Shellie committed perjury depends on the exact question asked and the exact words of the reply, not on some paraphrase of what someone thought she meant.

Added: I need to remember to refresh before replying. I didn't see all the more detailed responses along the same lines.


Last edited by MJW on Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:06 pm 
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chipbennett wrote:

That's cute and all, but what specific statement did Shellie Zimmerman make at the bond hearing, that was untruthful, and that she believed to be untruthful?


From CBS News:

"Records show that in the days before the bond hearing, Shellie Zimmerman transferred $74,000 in eight smaller amounts ranging from $7,500 to $9,990, from her husband's credit union account to hers, according to an arrest affidavit. It also shows that $47,000 was transferred from George Zimmerman's account to his sister's in the days before the bond hearing.

Four days after he was released on bond, Shellie Zimmerman transferred more than $85,500 from her account into her husband's account, the affidavit said. The affidavit also said jail call records show that George Zimmerman instructed her to "pay off all the bills," including an American Express and Sam's Club card.

A state attorney investigator met with credit union officials and learned she had control of transfers to and from her husband's account."


O'MARA: Other major assets that you have which you can liquidate reasonably to assist in coming up with money for a bond?
S. ZIMMERMAN: None that I know of.

O'MARA: I discussed with you the pending motion to have your husband, George, declared indigent for cost, have I not?
S. ZIMMERMAN: Yes, you have.

O'MARA: Are you of any financial means where you could assist in those costs?
S. ZIMMERMAN: Not that I'm aware of.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:19 pm 
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chipbennett wrote:
That's cute and all, but what specific statement did Shellie Zimmerman make at the bond hearing, that was untruthful, and that she believed to be untruthful?

forensicpsy wrote:
O'MARA: Other major assets that you have which you can liquidate reasonably to assist in coming up with money for a bond?
S. ZIMMERMAN: None that I know of.


Cash in a checking or savings account is already liquid, and thus cannot be liquidated. So this question is irrelevant.

Quote:
O'MARA: I discussed with you the pending motion to have your husband, George, declared indigent for cost, have I not?
S. ZIMMERMAN: Yes, you have.

O'MARA: Are you of any financial means where you could assist in those costs?
S. ZIMMERMAN: Not that I'm aware of.


And those questions, in context, were specifically about Shellie Zimmerman's own, personal financial assets, not about George Zimmerman's bank account.

At the time of that question, what was the balance of Shellie's bank account?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:33 pm 
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Quote:
O'MARA: I understand that you do have other family members present with you and I'll ask them questions of them but have you had discussions with them of at least trying to pool together some funds to accomplish a bond?
S. ZIMMERMAN: We have discussed that, trying to pull together the numbers of the family to scrape up anything that we possibly can.


I don't understand why MOM went there. Family members have no obligation to bail GZ out and family wealth is not a statutory factor for consideration in setting bond. The statutory factor is "family ties" which means whether the defendant has family in the jurisdiction and is thus not likely to flee.

Assuming no paypal money, "I have no money, no job and no substantial assets. I can't work because of death threats and the NBP wanted dead or alive bounty" should suffice. Next step: GPS ankle bracelet. Once out on bond, then GZ could have raised a zillion dollars.

Statute 903.046 Rule 3.131

http://www.leagle.com/xmlResult.aspx?xm ... 14210.xml&

http://www.5dca.org/Opinions/Opin2012/0 ... 090.op.pdf


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:46 am 
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Quote:
O'MARA: Other major assets that you have which you can liquidate reasonably to assist in coming up with money for a bond?
S. ZIMMERMAN: None that I know of.


Cash in a checking or savings account is already liquid, and thus cannot be liquidated. So this question is irrelevant.

Quote:
O'MARA: I discussed with you the pending motion to have your husband, George, declared indigent for cost, have I not?
S. ZIMMERMAN: Yes, you have.

O'MARA: Are you of any financial means where you could assist in those costs?
S. ZIMMERMAN: Not that I'm aware of.

And those questions, in context, were specifically about Shellie Zimmerman's own, personal financial assets, not about George Zimmerman's bank account.

At the time of that question, what was the balance of Shellie's bank account?

__________________________________________________________________________________

The money was in a safe deposit box.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:13 am 
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forensicpsy wrote:
From CBS News:

Records show that in the days before the bond hearing, Shellie Zimmerman transferred $74,000 in eight smaller amounts ranging from $7,500 to $9,990, from her husband's credit union account to hers, according to an arrest affidavit. It also shows that $47,000 was transferred from George Zimmerman's account to his sister's in the days before the bond hearing.

Four days after he was released on bond, Shellie Zimmerman transferred more than $85,500 from her account into her husband's account, the affidavit said. The affidavit also said jail call show that George Zimmerman instructed her to "pay off all the bills," including an American Express and Sam's Club card.

A state attorney investigator met with credit union officials and learned she had control of transfers to and from her husband's account.


Thanks for the money information, Forensic. I believe it is in that last line that SZ's goose is cooked.

chipbennett wrote:
So, back to BDLR's exchange:
Quote:
Q. And you mentioned also, in terms of the ability of your husband to make a
bond amount
, that you all had no money, is that correct?
A. To my knowledge, that is correct.


Seems like the bolded "your husband to make a bond amount" is now departing from looking at SZ's accounts and specifically looking at GZ's money. The bolded red above is what seems to make SZ's statement on the stand a lie.........right??


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:54 am 
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mooney1el wrote:
Was she under oath in any of the phone conversations?



She doesn't have to be. The phone conversations are going to be used to prove that she was aware of the money and how it was increasing. Also that code was being used to hide amounts knowing that the conversations were being taped. She can say the codes were used for another reason, but with everything else that really doesn't make sense.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:59 am 
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Remote wrote:

Thanks for the money information, Forensic. I believe it is in that last line that SZ's goose is cooked.


Seems like the bolded "your husband to make a bond amount" is now departing from looking at SZ's accounts and specifically looking at GZ's money. The bolded red above is what seems to make SZ's statement on the stand a lie.........right??


I don't know about all of the parsing of the statutes, but I just feel it is obvious there was an intent to deceive.

With that said, I also think it was selective prosecution because ordinarily this wouldn't rise to the level of a perjury prosecution.


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