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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:36 pm 
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This is Jeralyn's comment regarding W18. She is the third commenter.
http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php/topic,2045.0.html

Quote:
Her house backs up to the top of the T, which is the north side of the T. Here's a map.

She said during the call it was too dark to make out who was who in the struggle. She changed this later in the call after she saw Zimmerman get up. She has said both that she didn't call 911 until after hearing the pop and that she was on the phone with them when the shot happened.

She hired a lawyer and they made the rounds on CNN, from Anderson Cooper to Ashleigh Banfield and more. In some interviews her voice is disguised, sometimes as a male. Her wording in her 911 call is similar to her later interviews: the "pop" sound, the thought someone might have been walking their dog in the rain, and a lot more, her description of her 911 call and what she saw, etc. Her lawyer has been identified and given interviews.

In her 911 call, she said there were other neighbors whose porches were closer to the where the shooting occurred, who might have helped. It was too dark for her to see anyone clearly until after hearing the shot. She was so distraught during the call the dispatcher offered to send an ambulance to her house. She and her lawyer, Derek Brett of Orlando, later made the CNN rounds, with her face and voice being shielded. By then, she was convinced it was a young boy, Trayvon, who had cried out for help.

She doesn't describe the man as Hispanic in her 911 call, only in later interviews does she say she could see the man walking away was Hispanic. What she saw was Zimmerman walking away after the shot when people with flashlights had arrived on scene. She didn't even have her window open when she first heard what sounded like a scuffle before the shot. Then she turned her attention elsewhere until she heard them again. She called 911, and appears to be looking out her window describing what she is seeing. She says she heard a "pop." She wasn't sure it was a gunshot. She couldn't identify who was on top during the scuffle. She assumes it was the younger person because the older one walked away after it was over.

She is the witness who later described an "authoritative" voice. She assumes the older person has the authoritative voice. As I've said before, we've heard Zimmerman's voice, it's timid. We haven't heard Travyon's voice. She hears Zimmerman say he shot someone and surrender to police.

This is a classic case of an eyewitness memory being contaminated by post-event information, where the witness' memory of the original event is blended with information received later through the media. The result is a new memory is formed that is not accurate.

Listen to her 911 call. Then interview with Serino. Then read the transcripts of her TV interviews:


    <a href="http://talkleft.com/media/andersonnewwitness.pdf">Anderson Cooper Interview</a>
    <a href="http://talkleft.com/media/banfield.pdf">Ashleigh Banfield Interview</a>
    <a href="http://talkleft.com/media/velezmitchell.pdf">Jane Velez Mitchell Interview</a>
    <a href="http://talkleft.com/media/cnnwitnessbrett.pdf">Another CNN Interview with itness'slawyer </a>

She said in her 911 call she had no friends or relatives nearby. I think she is lonely , was traumatized and then felt ignored .

But since she lives at the top of the T, across from Witnesses 12 and 13, and she heard voices and saw two people struggle right outside her window, even though it was too dark to make out who was who, it does indicate the confrontation began as GZ said at the top of the T.

The state doesn't seem interested in calling her.


If W8's sworn statement gets the boot, the State may have to rely on W18 for much of their case. She was angry with Natjack for releasing her statement made to the PI hired by Crump (Wright) to LE. In the 1st Doc Dump that 13 pages is the interview done by Wright. I always thought it was Serino that did all that writing. She also allowed that PI to take photos from inside her house looking out to the dog walk. My biggest complaint at the time was that those photos were taken in broad daylight. It was a much different set of circumstances the night of the shooting with very low light conditions.

Pg 88 is her written statement the night of the shooting. Pgs. 89-101 are the interview with John Wright.
http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/3 ... ts-ocr.pdf

I am not sure the State can really use her but, if they have to, they will. I wouldn't call her a star witness. I don't even know that I would call her helpful since she has the confrontation starting at the top of the "T" and working its way south. Just as Zimmerman has said.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:18 pm 
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Here we go again..how long till manufactured outrage over this “child”….16 year old black snuck out of the house to go drinking and partying while grounded, and got shot in entering a home that wasnt his…”by mistake”?!?!!?
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/tee ... 50001.html

they already are using baby pics of him just like with kimani and trayvon and are using the "family has unanswered questions" meme as if this is hard to figure out...


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:35 pm 
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If this makes it to trial, I would think a "field trip" to RTL would be necessary for the jury to understand any witness's testimony. Without actually seeing the vantage points of the witnesses, how can the jury determine how plausible their statements are.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:38 pm 
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No need for a field trip... they will have all LIMPapa's vids (He says he has given them to BDLR)

Also Morinane Dave has been sneaking around TRATL with his "toilet cam"

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:06 pm 
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Rumpole wrote:
No need for a field trip... they will have all LIMPapa's vids (He says he has given them to BDLR)

Also Morinane Dave has been sneaking around TRATL with his "toilet cam"


Hey you never know...based on what we know now, BDLR doesn't appear to have much more than those lame videos...LOL


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:24 pm 
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Quote:
BDLR doesn't appear to have much more than those lame videos

Maybe they will use cabbage patch mans doll humping videos as "realistic portrayals of how it happened"


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:28 pm 
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A cabbage patch Judge? :31

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:49 pm 
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holy crap. google this: Trayvon Martin's lawyer: Teen witness unreliable
Previous lie raises questions about 'Witness 8,' he says

Read the results, the headlines, the articles. Crump never said it, omara did....yet the headlines arwe written to credit crump....this is media manipulation.

First Example:
http://www.floridatoday.com/viewart/201 ... unreliable

Headline:
Trayvon Martin's lawyer: Teen witness unreliable
Previous lie raises questions about 'Witness 8,' he says

The article:

ORLANDO — George Zimmerman’s attorney is again asking to take the deposition of a lawyer who interviewed a teenager who says she was on the phone with Trayvon Martin moments before he was shot by the neighborhood watch leader, according to court filing made public Monday.

Attorney Mark O’Mara said that new evidence has come out since a judge earlier denied a motion that would have allowed Zimmerman’s legal team to depose lawyer Ben Crump, who interviewed the teen known as “Witness 8” shortly after Martin’s death in February 2012.

The new evidence includes an admission by prosecutors that the teen lied when she said she had been so distraught over Martin’s death that she was hospitalized and couldn’t attend his funeral.

O’Mara said that lie raises questions about the truthfulness of other parts of her testimony. The teen is considered one of the prosecution’s most important witnesses.

“Now that Witness 8’s credibility is at issue because of this contradictory and possibly perjurious testimony, deposing Mr. Crump is even more necessary and relevant for further determination of additional misrepresentations or lies,” the court filing said.

Martin was fatally shot by Zimmerman during a confrontation a year ago at a gated community in the Orlando suburb, Sanford. Zimmerman is pleading not guilty to second-degree murder, claiming self-defense. His trial is set for June.

A delay in Zimmerman’s arrest led to nationwide protests.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:58 pm 
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IAmGeorgeZimmerman wrote:
holy crap. google this: Trayvon Martin's lawyer: Teen witness unreliable
Previous lie raises questions about 'Witness 8,' he says


I agree the title is misleading, but at least the copy is correct.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:14 pm 
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I am so sick of all the misrepresentation from TM supporters! Trayvon was shot, NOT because he was black. It was because he was committing felony assault on George!
If George had not been able to get control of his gun, we would be looking at a complete REVERSAL of roles. The big difference would be that there would hardly be any news of that case at all!

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:27 pm 
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Quote:
waltherppk says (quoted from TH):
March 18, 2013 at 6:54 pm
It could if the GPS was continually updating due to a detected change in location. I know the ping occurs periodically but I’m not sure what the refresh rate or “update” trigger is.


Would it not depend on the number of towers pinging him?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:49 am 
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IAmGeorgeZimmerman wrote:
Trayvon Martin's lawyer: Teen witness unreliable


Oh, it's just one of those little slips that the MSM is prone to make by accident, silly careless people that they are. They inadvertently hit the wrong key on the computer keyboard, that's all. Colon, ampersand - what's the difference, right?

Obviously what they meant to write was, "Trayvon Martin's lawyer & teen witness unreliable." :HSG


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:15 am 
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kbp wrote:
Quote:
waltherppk says (quoted from TH):
March 18, 2013 at 6:54 pm
It could if the GPS was continually updating due to a detected change in location. I know the ping occurs periodically but I’m not sure what the refresh rate or “update” trigger is.


Would it not depend on the number of towers pinging him?


If you are asking me, I'm not sure the answer. Another thing that may have been mentioned is that other networks cell towers may also have ping logs for the T-Mobile phones.....so it may be prudent to subpoena ALL of the cellular service providers having any towers in the area which may have ping logs. I am pretty sure that there is redundancy in the cellular service coverage provided by other networks in mutual agreement to be "roaming partners" with T-Mobile, so if there is an overlap in the area it is possible that cell towers of any other networks that are "roaming partners" with T-Mobile could very well have ping logs for the phones that are in addition to the phone ping logs provided only by T-Mobile. For GPS capable phones the pings do provide accurate handset based GPS location data that is accurate digital data and is absolutely different from the old analog system of triangulation that is a tower based technology. With a GPS capable handset one ping from the tower activates the GPS location response as the answer from the handset which gets its location from the GPS satellites independently of the towers. With the GPS app on the droid phone you can even watch your own movement track in real time and it is HIGHLY ACCURATE as in "sidewalk travel pathway" accurate. Now the refresh rate is the crux of the matter, because obviously the GPS app on the phone updates continually and frequently to be able to show your movements in real time overlaid as a trace on a google map. How the refresh rate for the app compares with the refresh rate for routine ping updates I really don't know and an expert will know.
I am not a forensic expert, nor am I an expert on cell phones. So the refresh rate or update trigger for the phone I wish I could tell you, but I really don't know what it is. My guess is that is probably a lower refresh rate for the GPS update based on pings than is true for when the app for real time GPS is running for displaying a travel path on the handset display. But even at a lower refresh rate as for the pings it likely is still refreshed often enough that useful location tracking is provided. It would need to be a reasonably frequent refresh rate to provide for people travelling by car while talking on the phone to not experience dropped calls. The tower does not know if a user is in a car or standing still unless there is a reasonable refresh rate or update trigger by change of position detected by the GPS. It possibly works in favor of there likely being a good GPS ping log travel path for the phone found with a dead battery, because a weak signal from a phone with a dying battery would have caused it to do more "seeking" of a good connection and it was probably being pinged more by different towers in the area trying to establish an acceptable signal. I am not certain about this "tower shopping" either and it would depend upon how the software is governing the service providers towers AND their "roaming partners" towers that were within range of that phone with the dying battery. It may be that it was the nearest tower by GPS was dedicated and no handoff would occur to other towers possibly having a better signal even though further away.
My guess is that towers do handoff based on signal strength regardless of the GPS, so it is likely many different towers were pinging that handset with the dying battery, effectively increasing the GPS refresh rate simply because the battery was dying. All of my suppositions here would need confirmation by an expert.

The "power management" strategy implemented in the phone software and how it would behave with a dying battery, interacting with the "connection signal management" software at the service providers towers and possibly the roaming partners towers is going to have relevance obviously.

The FBI almost certainly reviewed and would have been expected to review the forensic evidence, and the FBI is very thorough. So it reasonable to expect that ALL cellular service provider towers including "roaming partners" ping logs were already examined and analyzed by the FBI.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:00 am 
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Walther, I never thought about the roaming partner towers or about the possibility of a dying phone giving off that much information. I agree the FBI had to thoroughly go over that heart cell phone and George's too I would imagine. You and I have hung in there about the ping logs. The defense has got to have them along with the GPS stats. I keep thinking about the report the guy gave to Omara about the phone when he deposed him. The report did not match the one the prosecutiion gave him. There is a lot of evil politics at play here.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:27 am 
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WaltherPPK

I thought you might find this video interesting. According to a Time magazine article the cells phone pings the tower every 7 seconds, it did not say how often it communiques with the GPS satellites though. All that brouhaha about needing the pw to access the phone, the video is of the Cellubrite handheld cell phone extraction device. The Time article link is below
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article ... 39,00.html



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:57 am 
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Justfactsplz wrote:
Walther, I never thought about the roaming partner towers or about the possibility of a dying phone giving off that much information. I agree the FBI had to thoroughly go over that heart cell phone and George's too I would imagine. You and I have hung in there about the ping logs. The defense has got to have them along with the GPS stats. I keep thinking about the report the guy gave to Omara about the phone when he deposed him. The report did not match the one the prosecution gave him. There is a lot of evil politics at play here.


Yeah the possibility of roaming partner towers having data not examined by the defense could be worth looking into. It could just be the same data they got already from T-Mobile as independent confirmation.....but you never know, the roaming partners could have additional ping and GPS data that could fill in the gaps in the T-Mobile ping logs. If that effect is multiplied for several towers it could be a really good thing for the defense.

The most interesting thing that O'Mara has said was that the State last March had a GPS map for Martin's phone but this had not been timely disclosed with shared copies in discovery and what he eventually did get from the State was missing the GPS data for the day of the shooting. Hmmm, could be just maybe something suspicious about that....ya think.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:11 am 
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boricuafudd wrote:
WaltherPPK

I thought you might find this video interesting. According to a Time magazine article the cells phone pings the tower every 7 seconds, it did not say how often it communiques with the GPS satellites though. All that brouhaha about needing the pw to access the phone, the video is of the Cellubrite handheld cell phone extraction device. The Time article link is below
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article ... 39,00.html



Yes that is very interesting. Thanks. It is looking like there definitely very well could be two stories going on here about some of the investigation of this case, [1] the real story that is off the record, at least not found on any record that we will ever see, and [2] the record as told by the police narrative


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:19 am 
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It is more than suspicous, it is criminal. To be missing just that day is very telling. I imagine that the reason that day was not turned over to the defense is because it proves Trayvon was not talking to Dee Dee when Crump says she was. Time is running out and the defense still does not have all of the discovery from the State. The State says they do but there are things missing. I am banking on the hope that the defense got all of the important evidence on their own and did their own testing such as tox report, dna testing, phone experts, balistic experts, audio voice analysis experts, etc.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:29 am 
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Walther.

I did a little more research and found out the device is very popular with police departments, Orlando PD has 4, could not find out if Sanford had one. If you have one all you would require a search warrant and then you can unlock any phone according to the Cellebrite information. Why was there a need to break into the phone as the 12th supplemental suggested? Intentional damage? Did Brenton damaged the phone during his examination, that it required to be sent to Cellubrite late last year to finish gathering the information from the phone?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:46 am 
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There is definitely some incredible and grandiose shenaningans being described about the way in which the "heart" phone was handled from a forensics standpoint. It is truly a bizarre and simply unbelievable story, like it was a "cover story" fabricated for public consumption by dullards who would just eat all that crap up and say um yeah I see, when they don't really see anything but a bunch of propaganda constructed by spinmeisters and intended to deceive gullible halfwits.


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