With so many very reputable legal opinions from people who "get it" ....it is frustrating that this "Game" has to be played out at all.

Not a game to GZ and his friends family of course... and a huge financial cost as well.

I thought one of the purposes of a SYG/Immunity hearing was to short circuit the long expensive process of getting to a trial.... to demonstrate that a trial was not necessary in effect?

Mind you... a Grand Jury may have achieved that too?

A lot of politics and hidden agendas, no doubt.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

On a lighter note....

Woman yelling about Trayvon Martin case at VA clinic charged with disorderly conduct
By Jeff Weiner, Orlando Sentinel
6:41 p.m. EST, August 31, 2012

A Palm Coast woman apparently angry about the controversial George Zimmerman murder case faces a federal disorderly conduct charge after authorities say she began yelling at a patient in a Veterans Affairs clinic lobby.

Court documents state 61-year-old Ninoska A. Pope got into an argument with a patient at the outpatient clinic on National Health Care Drive in Daytona Beach.

"The argument was very loud and distracting to the flow of the clinic," reported an officer called to investigate. "Most of the patients at the waiting area were somehow upset about the occurrence and left the area."

The officer described Pope as "loud and boisterous" and said she "was yelling and cursing about the court case in reference to the George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin case."

Pope is set to be arraigned on a disorderly conduct charge next week. Zimmerman fatally shot Trayvon, 17, Feb. 26 in Sanford. Zimmerman says he fired in self-defense. He wasn't initially arrested by police, sparking outrage.

link to article
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/201 ... ient?sdads

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I would say this is just your average Trayvon Zone poster....

Should we run a sweepstake on which one it is?

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I thought I'd go away for a few weeks to give you guys time to get something done on this case. Well, what's the hold-up? You're no further along than we were when I left. I thought surely by now you would have a trial going. I'm disappointed in all of you. This is no laughing matter!

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­
"Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour." Leviticus 19:15

BBM to address.

The dispute about who is screaming for help can be easily solved by using plain old common sense, and we don't need the FBI to test anything or consult any voice expert. Who is it that was injured in this incident? George suffered several injuries. Trayvon only suffered one injury (besides the gunshot injury), and it was on a finger of the type that might occur by striking an object with a fist. It is pretty obvious, by the injuries and witness statements, that George was getting the worst of the encounter and had a need to cry out for help. Trayvon was not being injured during the incident and thus had no reason to cry out for help. Simple reasoning and common sense identifies the screaming individual as the one suffering the injuries.

Good points.

More common sense and reference to good scientific research....

GZ spoke of his cries for help in the Re-enactment video, possibly before that in LE interviews.. I would need to check.... but certainly in that re-enactment.... the day after the shooting... 3 days before the 911 calls became an issue (played to GZ by Sereno as I recall on 29th)... so GZ having already mentioned something that was LATER proved to have occurred is a very powerful piece of evidence.

People who now make claims about what they have already been made aware of form a very weak indicator.

Tracy Martin said it was not his son... GZ'd Dad said it was GZ.... for me the person crying out is GZ.... it sounds to me like his voice even.. now that I have heard him in interviews.
It would be nice to hear samples of TM's voice (why are none being made available) I imagine it would be VERY different to those cries.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I thought with the amount of FEAR I heard in that voice... that it was Trayvon ... possibly looking down the barrel of the gun. George knew the police would be there any second, Trayvon didn't?
If that was the case, who knows what could have been being said too? Pretty sure Z. hates criminals and he thought Trayvon was one - suspicious. "They ALWAYS get away ..." Frustration sounds like to me.
It is possible that he was tormenting him with words couldn't he? Like "You are going to meet your maker in a few minutes..." Something like a cat and mouse game? Who of us knows? We weren't there. NONE of us. Some witnesses even changed their story. Good grief!
George knew the Police were on the way, so even if they didn't have any sirens, he knew about the time they would be arriving, and could pull the trigger then. He is no stranger to the law or police procedures.
This is all if he is evil, or horribly frustrated as I suspect he might be about many things...
I do feel bad for him. Father a Judge - and he was having trouble with basic L.E. courses that he thought might help him pass the entrance test to be a Cop - this time. He failed once ... didn't he? I feel TERRIBLE FRUSTRATION
abounds ... I do. That is scary to me. I knew someone like that once... not healthy.
Just dropped in ... miss this place.
These are only my thoughts - feelings. I am aware it might happen the way Z. describes it, but I also know he would say/do anything he COULD to save his life. They always do.
And I wonder if it could have happened that way I am seeing it in my mind's eye?
The "T" that is spoken about here ... that is down the end near the "girlfriend's house"? That is where Z. was headed to get an "address"? If that is so, how did they get way back near the other end of the row of houses, nearer to Z.'s car - where Trayvon ultimately wound up? They were chasing each other, running back and forth?

Joni... The basic map and geography has been posted Many many times.. you should at least have some idea before discussing the case. There is a separate thread with crime scene photos and maps. Those photos and maps were also posted in this discussion thread. We are WAY past the basic map and layout of the crime scene.

After all that has been posted you have the basic layout (which can easily be seen and checked) WRONG in your mind... .....your thoughts on the way things happened too are in disagreement with the evidence.
IF you are going to just make everything up... not notice, or chose to not take in basic facts... what is the point?

Feelings, emotions, guesses.. quite frankly are NOT helpful in discussing cases.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

George and Trayvon met at the T intersection of sidewalks 20-30 seconds walk away from George's truck (nowhere near the home where Trayvon was staying). Put it this way, when you hear the dispatcher ask George if he's following, and advises him not to...the fight started right there.

It makes it hard for there to be any kind of chase like people claim.

And I know a lot of people, myself included, that hear shrieks of pain in that 911 call, and as someone just pointed out, George is the one who would have been in the most pain, with as much injury as he was taken. (His head was so swollen that Det. Singleton actually asked him if that was the normal shape of his head, then pointed out the following day how much the swelling had gone down).

Yes, and there was definitely fear in the voice calling for help. Even if George knew the police were on the way, he was getting his head bashed on the concrete. Knowing that people have died with just having their head banged on concrete one time, I'm sure George would have been afraid that the next time might be it! (Thank God, it wasn't.)

Controversy is swirling over a book written by GZ's friend Mark Osterman.

Due to be released and discussed in an interview with "Dr Phil"... already pre-recorded and due to air September 10, 2012

If you want to read more about it.. The Conservative Tree House is posting blogs based on excerpts from what is claimed to be an advanced (draft) copy.

Category Archives: Mark Osterman Book
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/cat ... rman-book/

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Opinion seems to be that Osterman, though well intentioned, is not doing GZ any favours by releasing the book and appearing with Dr Phil... I tend to agree. Why give rabid forum posters more to get confused over... to find hidden meanings in. And more importantly... why give the prosecution more "GZ version of events" to use?

And.... why Dr Phil? The guys is a menace IMO... out for ratings at any expense.. the expense to GZ may well be a distorted version of events aired publicly.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Today's Treehouse blog is:

Chapter Two – The Osterman Book and The Dangers Of Misplaced Advocacy
Posted on September 2, 2012 by sundancecracker


Just a snippet (purported to be from the book) caught my eye... a point worth emphasising...

According to the blog, reporting Osterman


I really do think it is important to stress how cooperative GZ was with the police... to me, that in itself indicates his honesty. In regards the Voice Stress Test... He did not baulk when asked to take the Voice Stress Test.. did not demand to see a lawyer first even. I do think he was telling the truth.

In a sense... Just agreeing to take the the test is a "Lie detector test" in itself... GZ passed that as well.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I read the article over there and the comments. I really don't think the book should be published before any trial. But I'm especially against airing the thing on Dr. Phil!!

I definitely agree, nothing good can come out of this book or the Dr. Phil interview. Look what happened with the Hannity interview. It will only give some people more to salivate over, they will find something to "prove" GZ is guilty. Every statement will be picked apart endlessly and will lead to more speculation and wild theories.

seeing_eye l and flgirl. I agree.

AND - nothing good can come out of this book or the Dr. Phil interview, EXCEPT
$$$$$$$$ for the author.

Here they come ... already.

While posting about the Drew Peterson case (a VERY efferent case altogether), I see some parallels in the logic used by people posting about the two cases.

In the DrewP case.... it is reported that he threatened that he COULD kill Kathleen and "make it look like an accident"..
so.. people say Ha Ha... this looks like an accident... so it proves it is a murder by Drew.

Of course that reasoning is faulty. "Occam's Razor" applies, and the most logical explanation is that it looks like an accident.. because it is an accident. (I am not saying it is .. just arguing this one aspect)

Here in the GZ case... people have said.. GZ is a "Sociopath" (a label just plucked out of thin air), and so he can "fake" a Voice Stress test. I doubt that is true, but even if it is..... again it makes more sense to conclude he passed the test... because he is not lying.
People say he is "knowledgeable about police procedures (I would dispute that) and so set up the events of the 26th February, and/or his testimony about it, to look like self defence.... once again that by-passes the simplest, most logical conclusion.. it looks like self defence.. because it is.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

BTW I do know a little bit about psychological testing.

IMO that test was conducted extremely WELL by whoever the tester was.
The test included an in-built reference standard... the questions where GZ was told to lie about something.

IF.. he was drugged, for instance, or a "Sociopath" able to control his own autonomic reactions to the stress of lying (I doubt that anyway)... that would show up in the answers to reference questions.

GZ PASSED the test... he was not lying IMO... he was in fear of his life when he shot the guy.. he was acting in self defence.

George Zimmerman lie detector video

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Still awaiting this ruling..... Maybe Lester will get on with it now that he has more free time?



George Zimmerman judge to rule later in unrelated stand your ground case
By Rene Stutzman, Orlando Sentinel
August 3, 2012

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/201 ... erman-case



Link to case at Clerk's Office
http://www.seminoleclerk.org/CriminalDo ... 0CF001851A

Latest entries:

08/31/2012 FREE SUPPLEMENTAL MEMORANDUM IN SUPPORT OF MOTION TO DISMISS DECLARING DEFENDANT IMMUNE FROM PROSECUTION
08/29/2012 SUPP SUPPLEMENTAL MEMORANDUM IN SUPPORT OF MOTION TO DISMISS DECLARING DEFENDANT IMMUNE FROM PROSECUTION
08/28/2012 MEMO STATES MEMORANDUM RE:DEF'S MOTION TO DISMISS DECLARING DEF IMMUNE FROM PROSECUTI

I notice that there is a hearing scheduled for TOMORROW - WEDNESDAY


Case Number: 592010CF001851A Judge: LESTER JR, KENNETH R
Defendant Name: ANITA SMITHEY
DOB: 09/1968
Proceeding: DOCKET SOUNDING Courtroom: 5B
Court Date: 09-05-2012 Time: 08:30AM

Maybe Lester will reveal his ruling on SYG??

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

The next scheduled hearing... DOCKET SOUNDING

Has been rescheduled from 3rd to 17th October

Proceeding: DOCKET SOUNDING Courtroom: 5A

Court Date: 10-17-2012 Time: 09:00AM

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light