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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:56 pm 
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FIRST ON FOX:George Zimmerman's bond hearing is set for June 29, according to attorney Mark O'Mara.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:27 pm 
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Hi R. Thanks for your update. :79

I am feeling too this case is stupid too. Losing interest, fast. :78


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:47 pm 
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I think BOTH sides have stated their position based on what we know so far. (ad nauseam)


It is now like a "political" discussion.. neither side is going to convince anybody on the other side.

And it really is TEDIOUS to read the same stuff repeated over and over... and worse.... in the absence of information to just make up "what if's" then "discuss" them as if they were actually fact????

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:26 pm 
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R. :86

I wonder if they can move the case out of FL? I have seen some FL Jury's. Not sure if justice always prevails in FL. :62


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:55 am 
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Zimmerman's treatment national disgrace
By Modesty Avian
June 7, 2012

It was said of Circuit Judge Kenneth Lester that he would not be moved by emotional hysteria, but rather view things within reason and the law. However, after his decision last week to revoke George Zimmerman's bond, I doubt whether anyone can remain uninfluenced.
Humans have discovered that good wishes are essential to life. Imagine then, if groups of people, organizations, churches, politicians and media were to vilify and demonize a single individual.
Bullying suicides are everywhere, from Tyler Clementi to Abraham Biggs, among many others who have taken their own lives when maligned. Consider Josh Powell, who burned himself and his sons when faced with hardships and trials.
It takes people of a high caliber and moral courage to survive death threats, terrorism, hatred and harassment. People like the Zimmermans deserve our empathy.
Lynch mobs want vengeance, not justice. Zimmerman is neither a racist nor a vigilante; yet he has been mercilessly demonized and vilified as one or the other. He utters no complaint, but speaks his truth quietly and clearly. When love can nowhere be found and all resulting troubles are viewed as God's justice, how can a man survive?

What is happening to Zimmerman, on every level, is a national disgrace.

It is easy to see from his actions and the court proceedings that Zimmerman has the deepest respect for our justice system. The video when he was first brought into the Sanford police station shows him wiping his feet as he enters the facility in handcuffs.
How would we feel when every decision we have made to do good is seen as evil and mercenary? It was Zimmerman's idea to apologize to Trayvon Martin's mother, Sybrina Fulton.
Zimmerman should not be criticized for the website he set up for donations to cover his legal and living expenses. Churches and other organizations often help members with bond or legal fees. However, the unfairness with this case is such that everything is criticized.

Whatever else you may think regarding the case, the character and courage of Zimmerman and his family is an inspiration to us all. Would we fare so well in his shoes?

link: http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/201 ... ry_display

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:57 am 
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The negative descriptions above certainly apply to a lot of the posting on other forums, sadly even evident from owners and moderators, who far from merely tolerating hysterical, "lynch mob" posting, actively join in themselves, while threatening "banning" by way of bullying to shut down most opposing views.... but then again hysterical posting and bullying owners/admin is standard at message forums I have found over the past 4 years.

What is happening to George Zimmerman is also a DISGRACE and sad indictment of some message forums

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:28 pm 
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LLL
It is silly to say if only such and such happened things would be different.

Sure... that is life?

If Tm (or GZ) had stayed home that night things would have been different? So what?

DNA on the gun???? So what.

The fact that GZ took out (or picked up his gun) and shot TM is NOT in dispute?

You are confused about evidence in general. FINDING DNA proves a link to a person.(contact with an item) NOT FINDING DNA proves nothing much other than the lab could not find any DNA on that item. It does no exclude contact at all... there can be contact that does not result in DNA left. Labs can not always collect measurable amount of DNA. I imagine a trigger on a small gun is a very limited place to find measurable amounts of anything. And NONE of that matters anyway? What on earth point do you think it proves?????

"On Adererall etc" Is an emotive statement. LOTS of people take prescribed drugs.... no evidence he was abusing those drugs?
And no evidence that it would play a part here if he was?

"He is a liar" "his family are liars" is emotive too. GZ is hardly that. We all tell lies. Labelling as A LIAR who you can never believe at all is silly.

A few little things? Something the jury MIGHT take into consideration when deciding what weight to give his testimony (if he ever testifies)

So... is that it? THAT is your case????? :31

GZ should NEVER have been charged.

I won't predict the outcome of this case... ANYTHING is possible in Florida I have seen (sadly), but I think GZ will be found NOT GUILTY in the end.

But what a travesty to put him and his family through all the real shit they are going through.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:01 pm 
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There is some well reasoned posting around.....

Quote:
Usually extremes no matter what side end up in the end being met with a backlash and the pendulum swings the other way. I believe this will be the case for GZ. The very measured coverage of the media is proof of that. The facts started to come out and did not fit the narrative, so the extreme tack started being walked back a little. Think of how this was covered in the beginning vs how it is covered now. No one wants to be on the sinking ship of the SS Crump. Things are not the way he sold it in the beginning.
The outright viciousness of the prosecution/system directed at him that would not occur if this was not in the spotlight and in the end will be recognized and GZ will walk.
The evidence will not show the clear cut case the prosecution seems to think they have all wrapped up and GZ will walk.
There is a silent majority that does see this as justifiable self defense, like it or not.
Most people in the jury pool are aware of very little in this case. They heard the Extreme story the media and Crump was pushing in the beginning and have since tuned out. Any jury will get limited information on this case brought before them and will see things were not what they were fed in the beginning, and there will be the backlash. Reasonable doubt is all that is needed at trial and there is plenty of that now, GZ will walk. Relative to the case or not, but still a factor, Deloranda does not come across as "likable" and O'Mara does come across "likable", this matters to a jury, like it or not, and GZ will walk.
TM was not the angel and that will be made clear to any jury. This whole bond revocation will be a "blip" on the screen in the long run. Happens everyday across this country. To the average person not tuned in to this case now GZ comes across as sincere and that is all that will count.
The reported version of the story is easy to understand...example A then B then C, the prosecution has to sell A then D then B then F etc. the prosecution has to prove a complicated scenario and that will create the "reasonable doubt.
The prosecution has to sell that is was illegal for GZ to get out of his truck. Guess what... it was not illegal for GZ to get out of his truck. They have to prove he followed TM. GZ said "OK" when told he did not need to do that. They did not instruct him to go back to his truck. Who is to say he did not stop where he was standing, at the "T". If he had continued to follow he would have been at Brandy's house and he wasn't. He was at the "T" and that is "reasonable" to believe. It is also "reasonable" to believe TM doubled back and assaulted GZ based on what we know.
GZ walks on any murder charges if not at the SYG hearing first.
Hdfb

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:13 pm 
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I'd like to restate a simple and VERY important fact in this case.....

IF GZ was out to stalk/hunt down a random youth for no valid reason... he would NOT first call the cops to come witness him doing it.
HE DID CALL THE COPS and kept them on the phone and so knew they were minutes, if not seconds away. To suggest he then attacked and shot TM does not make sense.

Applying the Judge Judy test.... IT IS NOT TRUE

TM did not go home and stay home.. clearly. He had plenty of time to do that. He came back and confronted GZ.

In USA (Florida) it is LEGAL to carry a concealed weapon.. GZ has a permit to do just that. The ONLY purpose for a concealed weapon is to shoot (and kill) somebody (in self defence) GZ did just that.

Maybe some would like the law to be different?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:21 pm 
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George Zimmerman Legal Defence Site.

http://gzlegalcase.com/

Includes a link to donate to the Defence Fund
http://www.gzdefensefund.com/

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:28 pm 
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If Angela Corey threatened suit against Dershowitz and Harvard, she needs to step down from Zimmerman case
Posted by William A. Jacobson
Thursday, June 7, 2012 at 10:29am

Corey now has made the prosecution a personal issue. Will she conduct the prosecution in such a way as to achieve justice, or to set herself up for a personal lawsuit against Dershowitz and Harvard?
Corey certainly has a right to protect and defend her reputation in civil actions, but she cannot interject those concerns into a prosecution. By threatening suit against a critic in the middle of the case, Corey has put her own financial interests at stake in the outcome and conduct of the prosecution.
Florida has adopted American Bar Association Standards of Criminal Justice Relating to Prosecution Function. ABA Standard 3-1.3 Conflicts of Interest provides in pertinent part:
A prosecutor should not permit his or her professional judgment or obligations to be affected by his or her own political, financial, business, property, or personal interests.
Corey should step down. Now.

....more at link
http://legalinsurrection.com/2012/06/if ... rman-case/


William A. Jacobson
Associate Clinical Professor,
Cornell Law School

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:59 am 
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GEORGE ZIMMERMAN MAY BE A VICTIM TOO

I have seen forums where it is decreed that "Trayvon is The Victim" and as such holds special status?

Real discussion about TM (warts and all), is shut down... not allowed on pain of BANMENT!

I concede: It is the prerogative of site owners to shut down discussion.. but that does NOT change reality.

It is contrary to any pretence that such a forum is a place that wants to seriously discuss cases.

More suited to a desire to gossip than a quest for justice

Whether or not Trayvon is a "victim", or is the only victim, is the very thing that needs to be resolved.. either at a SYG hearing or a trial.
It is is one of the MAIN ISSUES that a forum covering this case NEEDS to discuss.

Sites that are prepared to shut down just one side of the discussion are in fact WORSE than (much maligned) Websleuths... where they at least opted to shut down BOTH sides of the argument and close Zimmerman/Martin discussion altogether.

I know it is common practice for hypocritical site admin to bully posters ... treat them like naughty school children.
To have "teachers pets"
I will try and treat people as adults here at Random Topics.

Whether or not TM is the only victim here CAN NOT be decided by a poll of the most rabidly vocal posters...and it certainly CAN NOT be decreed by a forum owner.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:05 pm 
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No proof?

It is a FACT that GZ called the cops... we have all heard the call?

It is a fact that TM had time to get home.

If you are going to be in denial of facts.. your "opinion" will never change.

The logical (scientific) approach is to modify a hypothesis (theory) as facts come to light.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:49 pm 
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A great forensic analysis tof the Zimmerman Martin case

Link to pdf (8 pages)
http://www.martinelliandassoc.com/pdf/F ... ooting.pdf

Opening page:
Image

Closing page:
Image

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:05 pm 
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The Lynching of George Zimmerman
By Anthony W. Hager

George Zimmerman's public image took a blow when a judge revoked his bond, alleging that Zimmerman willfully misled the court concerning his financial situation. The fact that he's back in jail makes him appear guilty in the public's eye, and that's what matters. Whether or not Zimmerman misled the court is immaterial. In fact, his guilt or innocence is immaterial. His trial has transcended justice; it's now about capitalizing on opportunity.

Zimmerman has maintained since day one that Trayvon Martin instigated their fatal confrontation. Zimmerman's various injuries coupled with autopsy results revealing Martin's injured knuckles tend to support his story. That evidence might be the reason why he wasn't charged immediately after the shooting. Yet he remains guilty until proven innocent in the eyes of many, including the federal government and national media.

Could there be an orchestrated campaign between government and media entities to see this man imprisoned, or even executed? Despite the physical evidence of which we're aware, an apparent lack of credible witnesses on either side of the case, and expert legal opinion belittling Florida's case against Zimmerman, the FBI has launched a hate crime investigation against him. And it could stick

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/06/ ... z1xKBMkkRq

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:44 pm 
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Zimmerman: Anatomy Of A Deficient Probable Cause Affidavit
Posted on April 14, 2012 by bmaz

Now that the dust has settled from the decision in the Zimmerman/Martin case not to proceed by grand jury by the Florida Special Prosecutor Angela Corey, and the decision to file a single count of second degree murder, I want to address a couple of critical topics in the case. First is the fact that there are serious questions as to the sufficiency of the probable cause affidavit that currently constitutes not just the core, but pretty much the entire basis for the state’s case.

A probable cause affidavit is exactly what it sounds like, a sworn affidavit delineating probable cause in a criminal case – whether it be to search a place, arrest a person or charge a crime. Whatever the particular purpose, the affidavit must delineate the factual basis to support the specific legal action sought to be pursued by the state. And the general principle common to all such affidavits, whether for search, arrest or charging, is that it must “stand on its own” based on “what is within its four corners”. In lay terms, that means there must not only be sufficient information to cover all requisite elements necessary for the action, all such support must be actually in the affidavit – not in some extraneous place or with some extraneous source.

The Zimmerman affidavit is, at least by my analysis, wholly deficient for its purpose intended, i.e. to support the criminal charge under Florida law of second degree murder against Zimmerman.

....more at link
http://www.emptywheel.net/2012/04/14/zi ... affidavit/

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:56 am 
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George Zimmerman's Credibility
By Jeralyn, Section Colorado News
Posted on Sat Jun 09, 2012 at 09:32:00 AM EST

Despite his lawyer's statement that George Zimmerman has some repair work to do on his credibility, I'm even less convinced than I was before that Zimmerman's credibility should be affected by the matters presented in the state's motion to revoke bond or the judge's order revoking bond.

Neither alleged George Zimmerman lied. They allege he was deceitful through his silence. I think why he was silent needs to be examined, and in examining it, I can't quite decipher what his lawyer, Mark O'Mara is saying: Is he falling on his sword because Zimmerman deceitful to him and the Court, or is he acknowledging his own missteps for failing to properly inform Zimmerman and by extension, his wife?

.....more at link
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2012/6/5/223228/5631

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:16 am 
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Will jury, or judge, decide George Zimmerman's fate?
By Jeff Weiner, Orlando Sentinel
June 10, 2012

It's possible a judge, not a jury, will decide Zimmerman's fate. He says he fired in self-defense, and many expect his lawyers will eventually ask for an immunity hearing under Florida's controversial "stand your ground" law.

Often described as a "minitrial" in which the burden of proof is on the defense and the judge serves as jury, such hearings are unlike other criminal-justice proceedings.
The lawyers' roles are reversed, the burden of proof is low, and the stakes couldn't be higher.
"If the judge dismisses the case, it's game over," says Eric Schwartzreich, a Fort Lauderdale attorney who has represented multiple "stand your ground" defendants since the law was passed in 2005.


......more at link
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/201 ... se-lawyers

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:28 pm 
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The chat was off topic..... especially me :24

Moved some posts to DAILY DISCOURSE

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:12 pm 
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I have seen the point made (time and time again) that TM had the right to SYG?

That is a novel interpretation? The right to SYG and be shot?

Even IF (as some claim) GZ was following TM... and TM decided to STAND HIS GROUND and confront GZ.

...he did so with the force he had available (his bare hands and maybe a swinging bag with Arizona Watermelon drink can inside)

..... not a smart move in a State where ANYBODY could well have (legally) a gun tucked in their belt.

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