Nel has LOST the plot....

Whatever this witness testifies to is in regard the defence version..... Nel contends that that is all BS made up by OP anyway....

I really think Nel is confused. His concern over this witness in itself concedes that OP's version is correct...

If Nel is sure his version is correct then this witness is irrelevant.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I did warn that "psychobabble" always "ends in tears" in a court.

I do appreciate that genuine mental illness can be a factor in a crime.... but not often and those cases do need psychiatric evaluation.
However, most defendants are in the "normal" range... and so Psychological/psychiatric evaluations are likely subjective... suject to dueling opinions from either side.

However again....Dr Vorster has impressed me.... and her evidence does seem useful. It is Nellie who has had a brain fart and stuffed things up.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

As I have stated many times....

IMO Nel overcharged this case. He has a speculative "version" of events with no evidence to prove it. He should have conceded that events were pretty much as OP claims... no real need to argue the details at all. Just accept that OP shot at the door believing there was an intruder. MOST of the evidence presented so far would be unnecessary!!! The trial should have been about OP's actions given that HE thought there was an intruder. Evidence such as this psychiatrist is relevant to that, but Nel has barely addressed that aspect of the case... it should be the whole of the case.
Nel is worked up about this evidence, not only does it tend to confirm OP's version... but it actually addresses that version and in some way explains, if not justifies it.
Nel SHOULD have been addressing this aspect himself from the outset of the trial, or at least very soon after when it was clear that his own witnesses made his own time line of events impossible and his own witnesses testimony supports OP's version.
Nel should be aggressively cross examining this witness... but to do that he needs to refute what she is saying (with his own expert if he can find one). Instead Nel has gone the daft route. He wants a psychiatric evaluation, but he sure as hell does not want OP to be declared as acting due to a mental illness at the time of the event. So this will be counter productive for Nel one way or the other. If OP is declared "not nuts" then the evaluation is a waste of time. We will be back to where we are today... OP not nuts, but with Anxiety disorder that supports his version and "explains" his actions. If OP is declared as "nuts" at the time of the incident... then who knows? He surely can not then be tried for murder at all. He may get committed, but chances are he will be released after a short time.
IF an evaluation does go ahead... my guess is that OP will be declared "not nuts" and we will be back where we are today... it will be a complete waste of time. Wasting time seems to be a feature of SA Justice System

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I haven't been able to keep up with the trial but I'm still with the view that he panicked and really thought there was an intruder. This diagnosis of anxiety disorder makes sense to me. And according to the testimony he was reared to see the external environment as threatening, and I do know how that can impact someone for the rest of their life. And tie that in with the general conditions around SA in which there are many home invasions etc. his fears would seem to be amplified. Being legless would seem that he'd think it would be best resort to fight rather than flight in order to survive whatever he believed could come after him.

So many of these people that are so sure he is guilty of murder might do well to experience a little bit of life on the dark side. Oh dear just shut me up.

From TalkLeft................

Oscar Pistorius Trial : Prosecutorial Gamesmanship
By Jeralyn, Section Crime in the News
Posted on Mon May 12, 2014 at 12:51:51 PM EST

Oscar Pistorius is back in court as his defense team continued to call witnesses.

The defense psychiatrist, Dr. Meryl Vorster, testified as to Oscar's vulnerability as a double amputee, and the prosecutor asked to have the trial delayed and Oscar sent for a 30 day mental evaluation.

This is gamesmanship. The witness clearly stated Oscar knew the difference between right and wrong. There's no indication or defense claim he was insane or suffering from diminished capacity such that he couldn't appreciate the nature of his actions at the time of the shooting.

The prosecutor also claims that general anxiety disorder is tantamount to mental illness. (The psychiatrist disagreed with this and stated Oscar is not mentally ill.) In my view, the prosecutor is trying to buy time to save his losing case. The law (Section 78 of the Criminal Procedures Act) requires both that a mental disorder be present and that the person is incapable of appreciating the wrongfulness of his actions. The judge has taken the matter under advisement, but I suspect she will reject the state's request.

...more at link
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2014/5/12 ... mesmanship

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Finally some sanity.... Jeralyn Merrit at TalkLeft describes the situation well.

If Nel had any faith in the State "version" of events prevailing, then this evidence would be irrelevant. Nel is all of a tiswas because this evidence cleary makes a lot of sense and bolsters OP's version of events.

Note also Vorster CONFIRMED that OP has repeatedly expressed deep remorse. That has been the testimony of everyone who has had contact with OP since the events. Nel STILL persists in banging on about "no remorse" and everything OP says being about him???? I think Nel is the one who is delusional. He seems suited to posting at a True Gossip Forum, since he remains wilfully ignorant.... but he is just making an ass of himself as a Prosecutor in Court.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Is Oscar Pistorius crazy? State wants tests
By Robyn Curnow. Richard Allen Greene and Emily Smith, CNN
May 12, 2014 -- Updated 1416 GMT (2216 HKT)

Pretoria, South Africa (CNN) -- Oscar Pistorius prosecutor Gerrie Nel wants the South African track star sent for independent psychiatric evaluation, he said Monday, in a move that could delay the athlete's murder trial for a month or more.

A psychiatrist testified Monday that Pistorius has an anxiety disorder stemming from his double amputation as an infant and his unstable parents.

He's depressed now and feeling guilt from having killed his girlfriend, Reeva Steenkamp, defense witness Dr. Meryl Vorster said on the stand.

Nel responded by comparing the athlete's mental state to post-traumatic stress disorder and saying the law required psychiatric observation.

The prosecutor's extremely unusual move is essentially an effort to maneuver the court into considering an insanity or "capacity" defense even though the athlete's legal team is not mounting one, CNN legal analyst Kelly Phelps said. Phelps, a criminologist and law lecturer at the University of Cape Town, said she had never seen this done before.

....more at link
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/12/world ... ?hpt=hp_t3

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Is Gerrie Nel crazy? Rumpole wants tests

You have to wonder at Nel's sanity

WHY on earth is he pushing for an insanity defence... his job is to prosecute??

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I love the summing up here by Rumpole and I agree. 'Well let's think, the State imo have nothing, so insanity wins against the state's case, the state knows it has nothing.

I also agree with Jeralyn , absolutely spot on.

_________________
Since we are destined to live out our lives in the prison of our minds, our one duty is to furnish it well~Peter Ustinov

Funny thing is......

They just LOVE psychobabble at True Gossip Forums.... they love to diagnose defendants as suffering from all manner of psychological and psychiatric disorders. "Sociopath" is a standard True Gossip Forum label applied to ALL defendants. They have applied that to OP already and of course attributed all manner of other psychological problems... in and around him being a control freak, spouse verbal abuser, physical abuser and murderer. They always have to walk a fine line between their diagnosis of mental problems in a defendant, but of course stopping well short of "Mental Illness" being an excuse to avoid responsibility (and prosecution).

Nel has kinda stuffed things up for them (though they still regard Nel as "marvellous")... he has crossed the "True Gossip line in the sand" by suggesting that this defendant might actually qualify for an insanity "get out of Jail" card.

True gossip forum posters are quick to make psychiatric diagnoses themselves... but of course do not go along with what a Highly qualified Psychiatrist diagnoses

The irony is rich... Posters complain that this psychiatrist only had a few weeks to diagnose OP.. only two interviews with OP (plus the interviews with friends and family). Posters though, claim valid diagnoses based just on what they read in media reports and their own imagination... bolstered by their reading of "self help" "pocket psychology" books.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Funny.....

This bit of stupidity by NEL has morphed into a desperation "Defence Ploy"?

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

It's clear that the VAST majority are anti-Pistorius everywhere and I don't think they could be more wrong.

This is one of the few sites where reason outweighs retarded thinking and it is mind numbing to me why so many are so blinded by Nel's theatrics and subliminal plants of pats on his own back that he hopes the judges will buy. This is a prosecutor I detest for his sleazy tactics and twisting of words--so exact opposite of Roux.

I expect that his moronic application for mental evaluation is going to be another embarrassment for Nel and well deserved.

It will really be great if the "judges" vindicate what we here have been contending. I think they are super sharp judges. I will be comfortable with whatever they decide and I have never made that blanket statement about any other judges.

I think it will only be the technicalities of the law that would require a finding of guilty but I just don't see them deciding it was premeditated murder of his girlfriend.

I STILL have high hopes for a Judicial system where deliberations are by a Judge(s).... but who knows?

I have lost some confidence in trial by Jury... but it could be worse.... trial by True Gossip Forum!

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

IMPORTANT NOTE

Dr Vorster just referred to "Generalised Anxiety Disorder" a "TREATABLE DISORDER"

OP did not know he had "GAD" and so has never been treated for it.

The way Nel is going.... OP might well claim this as a disorder at the time of the incident.. and so he can NOT be prosecuted for murder... but might then well claim he is under treatment and so does not need to placed in a Mental Hospital.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Dr Voster said that OP's version to her was that he fired "at the noise". She was not QUOTING OP verbatim... just relaying what she remembered he said to her.... Nellie jumped on this... as Nellies do

Nellie is making a BIG DEAL of this saying that that was NOT OP's version to the court? Really? It was damned near that? Any variation in mere semantics is hardly worth Nel getting his knickers in a twist over?

I do wonder WHY there are not more objections to crap like this?

IF Nel is claiming that OP said something TOTALLY different... then Nel should say what he is claiming... A lot of things do turn out to be Nel's interpretation of what was said.. after badgering a witness with same question over and over and taking the one answer Nel likes best.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

He keeps going on about stress, yet indicating that OP managed to keep control, is it me, or did I miss something?

_________________
Since we are destined to live out our lives in the prison of our minds, our one duty is to furnish it well~Peter Ustinov

Now this is me thinking aloud. If I were faced with a situation which put me in fear, and I chose a method to stop that which was causing the fear - would I not be acting in a state of 'temporary' high anxiety or 'insanity' at that time caused purely by my perception of what was about to happen to me if I took no action to defend myself.

I'm pondering.

_________________
Since we are destined to live out our lives in the prison of our minds, our one duty is to furnish it well~Peter Ustinov

Nel is going ahead with the application for Psychiatric evaluation... DR Vorster already said that OP would NOT be evaluated as "not knowing right from wrong"... and she is the sort of person who will do any such evaluation... so its a complete waste of time... clearly.

I really hope that the Judge denies this... Nel is making such a big deal of it... it would be great to see Nel slapped down

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I think all Nel is doing is spinning this trial out to be honest. He will get nowhere with this, wasting valuable court and judge's time imo

_________________
Since we are destined to live out our lives in the prison of our minds, our one duty is to furnish it well~Peter Ustinov

Even if there was some sort of insanity involved - why would that only come up now. I have to say I'm not used to the format of these trials in South Africa.

_________________
Since we are destined to live out our lives in the prison of our minds, our one duty is to furnish it well~Peter Ustinov