Hmmm... I see some read an awful lot into OP's background testimony ....suggesting that OP is "schizophrenic"

I guess since EVERY defendant is "diagnosed" as "a sociopath", narcissistic etc early on in every case, then you have to go really daft to top that!

"schizophrenic" is in effect just more psychobabble cowbell!



Shock horror... OP admits taking Meds for depression (since the shooting).

Then again... so too do MANY of the people posting take antidepressants and other psychotropic meds... some seem to delight in mentioning it from time to time in posts... others are more circumspect. Shame they can not empathise with that aspect at least...

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

If what we heard today is real and genuine, and I have no reason to doubt it, then her death and everything that has surrounded it, has left its mark on his emotional life in a big way.

Now, I can't remember the names of this couple from South Africa who gave an interview only a few days ago. But, it said at the start of the interview with Sky News that OP's trial has brought 'it all back' to this couple. Similar circumstances, their daughter was going out one night, but didn't tell her parents. This happened during recent break ins to neighbours' houses. The man of the house heard noises, fired his gun in the direction of the noises, the bullet ricocheted across the hallway (I think he said hallway) and hit his daughter in the head - only then had he realized what the noises were, it was his daughter preparing to go out.

He said he'll never forget that day as long as he lives, his wife likewise, they were both in tears as they gave the interview, because the daughter was killed by her own father. The man said that it was an accident, and therefore neither he nor his wife were charged with anything. But, he said that watching and following the OP case has upset him and brought it all flooding back.

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Since we are destined to live out our lives in the prison of our minds, our one duty is to furnish it well~Peter Ustinov

Wroughead.

The case you refer to has been referred to a few times. It is sort of a "go to" reference for this case.

It gets a big mention, including some bits of interviews in the OP documentary I posted.

There is a copy of that in the reference thread. The case you refer to get a mention in the last third from memory

PISTORIUS REFERENCE - Documents, Photos etc (NO DISCUSSION)
viewtopic.php?f=105&t=1211#p71047

The Doco was made well before the trial started... so some detail outdated.... but still a good doco.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

It is not surprising today that many confirm what was just as predictable as the sun coming up in east. Those that hate Pistorius are doing handstands thinking that Nel was splendiferous in cross examination. The crowd that hopes the bull gores the matador.

I will speak only for myself. Nel was callous, snide and impetuous. He did not discredit any opinions of Botha and he looked very juvenile in his arrogance. I watched the judge carefully and I don't think he was impressing her in the least with his style. She had to reprimand him to let the witness finish his answer at one point as she was interested in his answer.

Nel tried to imply that he was impeaching the witness by putting his foot up on a stand and mocking him. Botha began his pathology career in 1969 and he gave his professional opinion on only the sequence of the shots, linked only to the wound patterns, wound affectations, time and gravity and the confined space. It was made very clear that the ballistics correlations or holes in the door were irrelevant to him. At no point did he reference it on direct and Nel tried to morph him into stating he did, which he refused to be badgered into.

That should have shown anybody one thing. That his testimony was not rehearsed and correlated with all the other experts to fashion one cohesive story so that everything came together to match perfectly with whatever Pistorius' story is going to be. That to me was impressive.

He stated factually the unreliability of stomach contents and didn't try to say that Saayman was unequivocally incorrect. Masipa now has an esteemed expert saying it's guesswork supported by peer reviews which she can take into account. He admitted the blood spatter which he didn't see without the high magnification. But he also observed the splinters which are imbedded in the wounds caused by closeness to the door in his opinion and tests were not done by Mangena to have evidence to dispute it.

Nel has tangled with this guy before as a prosecutor. Botha did an autopsy and at the time said 7 s-l--o-w 9mm bullets had hit the murder victim, which I'm sure was roundly snickered at. The end result was that hit men were found to have done the killing and the accused individual was acquitted. This is no one to take lightly or his observations.

A trial is a mosaic that evolves. It's like a movie with plots, sub plots, twist, turns and surprise endings. Today, Judge Masipa has been introduced to two different accounts of shot sequence which are entered into evidence. Now if Roux's ballistics experts cannot show a tie-in to Botha's opinion on sequence, and Pistorius' recount of exactly what he did, then a question of culpability is certainly more appropriate and prudent.

When 14-17 more witnesses have been put under oath and I hear what they have to say and when both closing arguments have been presented, then I will reach a conclusion.

However as of right now with what I saw today, there is NOTHING that has shown me that Reeva Steenkamp was OP's intended target that night.

Thanks aavi... you watched the same trial as I did. I have come to the conclusion that there is another version playing in a parallel universe and some posters have inadvertently tuned into that.

I can not see that the sequence of shots matter much anyway?

It seems the hip wound was first. Both agree.

It would have been "nice" to suggest the head shot was first... and so easier to convince people that there was no scream, but that is not to be. That is NOT what happened. I accept that, but also think that even with head shot last... hardly time to react to shock of first shot to the hip and scream.

What was important was the stomach digestion stuff. Clearly time of digestion it is an inaccurate metric at best. That came across clearly.

And .... as I posted at TalkLeft...
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2014/4/7/ ... -the-Stand



Give me a break.... "Tea-Break Nel"

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

The nuances of logic etc in this case are a bit tricky....

I see people claiming, well, even if OP's version is true then he shot at the intruder and so it's still murder (of the intruder).

It's not that simple.

OP is charged with the Murder of Reeva Steenkamp and not murder of an intruder.

Reeva is the person whom he killed. There is no dispute.

But..... (if his version holds) he did not intend to shoot, let alone kill Reeva, and so it can NOT be Premeditated Murder(of Reeva), or murder(of Reeva) at all IMO.

Neither can it be Murder of an intruder.... no intruder was harmed in the making of this case!!!

I think it might help to think of it as:

OP fired at an Imaginary Intruder
But the Intruder "got away" (vanished).
OP did not harm an intruder in any way. (He missed)
OP shot, and killed Reeva by mistake. (while aiming at, and missing an intruder)

There is of course still room for charges to result from that lot (depends on SA law)... but not Murder

And of course there is mitigation: OP genuinely feared for his life, and Reeva's life etc.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I haven't followed this trial closely, but have been reading RT. Thanks so much for the trial updates.

Earlier I was looking at the crime scene photos - the bat in particular. Close-up pictures show blood "spatter" on the bat. How did that happen when the bat was used to get the door open?

Then I saw a picture of the bat on the bathroom floor and the bat and surrounding floor has blood "spatter" all around. How did that happen?

_________________
Puzzler - that which puzzles or perplexes; anything that arouses curiosity or perplexes because it is unexplained, inexplicable or secret.

Hi Puzzler

The bat does "look bad" I don't remember exactly... but the State blood spatter guy did end his testimony/findings with "nothing at odds with OP's version" or words to that effect. And the ME made no mention of blunt force trauma injuries. All injuries were accounted for by the gun shots.

If I had to guess....... the bathroom and toilet had huge pools of blood... I think OP and the bat could have been splashing around in blood.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Thanks.

http://www.hlntv.com/slideshow/2014/03/ ... rder-trial

Pictures 7-9/29 - show bat with spatters - at first I thought that the bat was used to break open a hole in the door and "then" the gun was shot and spatter got on the bat that way.

Picture 23/29 - then I saw the picture of the bat on the floor and there's quite a bit of spatter beside the bat - guess the bat got the spatter at that time; however, what the heck happened to cause the spatter in the bathroom greater area - "not" in the area where the toilet is located.

_________________
Puzzler - that which puzzles or perplexes; anything that arouses curiosity or perplexes because it is unexplained, inexplicable or secret.

Thanks

I have a few photos and links in a "Reference" thread... I'll add that link too. Hope they keep the photos at the link.....sometimes they vanish

PISTORIUS REFERENCE - Documents, Photos etc (NO DISCUSSION)
viewtopic.php?f=105&t=1211&p=73136#p73136

I THINK if Nel was going to suggest that the bat was used as a weapon to attack Reeva... he would have said by now?

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I agree about the bat, and splatter and the fact that they have all the photographic evidence taken at and around the scene, would suggest to me that if it was evidence of an initial or further attack against Reeva Nel would most certainly have pounced on it - let's face it he needs all the evidence he can get!!

I hadn't realized that this docu had already been shown and I think I missed that earlier discussion, you're right it is a good docu.

_________________
Since we are destined to live out our lives in the prison of our minds, our one duty is to furnish it well~Peter Ustinov

Hi Wroughead....

OP a bit calmer... listening with interest.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Yes he's a bit calmer (a lot calmer) but I wish they'd move on from these personal phone messages - I loathe that, we know Roux is trying to show what a devoted young couple they were, but constantly going over phone chat and messages, should be stopped now - he's proved his point, please move on!

Page 297 of how many - presumably up to at least the 13th Feb. oh no I hope I can keep my eyes open or my concentration going.

_________________
Since we are destined to live out our lives in the prison of our minds, our one duty is to furnish it well~Peter Ustinov

Yes... but the damned State started this with the 4 arguments. Roux is only countering that. Since 99.8% messages are NOT arguments... I think he has to hammer that point home.


And keep in mind around the dafter places... they have been claiming that just those 4 arguments mean OP is abusive... a classic wife beater even... there was even talk of calling in Alyce La Violette

Really... if the dopes can make so much of nothing much at all... it behoves Roux to present a big fat reality check

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I know, and when you think about ordinary day to day 'dating' which at the time was what they were doing, possibly if we take his word, with the intent of going further in their relationship, what young couples (and older ones) don't have 3, 4 or more arguments - so I agree with you it was daft, and Roux has to counter Nel in that respect.

My viewing has just been interrupted, so i don't know if they're on a court tea break or not. I've been watching on Wild About Trial.

_________________
Since we are destined to live out our lives in the prison of our minds, our one duty is to furnish it well~Peter Ustinov

I watch a couple of SA live YT sites... both crapped out... still have

daily Mirror working
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news ... es-3387093


I honestly think the SA places were caught out because we have NOT had a tea break!!!

Up again now.. but moved to "session 2" which usually comes after one of Nel's tean breaks

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

ok I'll watch that.

_________________
Since we are destined to live out our lives in the prison of our minds, our one duty is to furnish it well~Peter Ustinov

The YT is working again too..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvA32TBcCt0

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

ok

_________________
Since we are destined to live out our lives in the prison of our minds, our one duty is to furnish it well~Peter Ustinov

Is it my imagination, that this judge has never pulled any other witness up about speaking too quickly. I don't think it is. Also, I believe this is the first time that I've heard any judge comment on the speed or a witnesses' speech, that's why we have stenographers in court, and later transcriptions.

Or, maybe this is more significant in that I would love to know as she is listening to his evidence, if she just doesn't want to miss a detail for her own benefit.

Slow down - speak up - don't speak too fast etc. It's bugging me.

_________________
Since we are destined to live out our lives in the prison of our minds, our one duty is to furnish it well~Peter Ustinov